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Torrentz.com and UK-Torrents.com Are No More

Postby SlyckTom » Tue Feb 15, 2005 1:03 pm

The MPAA (Motion Picture Association of America) can add two more Torrent sites to its checklist: Torrentz.com and UK-Torrents.com. Since mid-December 2004, the MPAA has accumulated an impressive list of Torrent sites it either brought down or influenced its demise. Such sites include SuprNova(influenced), Youceff Torrents, Pheonix Torrents, LokiTorrent, Torrentz and UK-Torrents.

At this time the situation regarding <a href=http://www.uk-torrents.com target="_blank">UK-Torrents.com</a> remains fluid. When an individual heads over to the "UK-Torrents.com" domain, he or she is automatically redirected over to LokiTorrent.com. Most people by now have seen the MPAA's message plastered across LokiTorrent's homepage. The message "You Can Click, But You Can't Hide" is prominently displayed, along with their rated "I" for "Illegal Downloading." It is unclear whether UK-Torrents has suffered a similar fate to LokiTorrent, or if the MPAA struck a deal with the site's administrator.

The <a href=http://www.torrentz.com target="_blank">Torrentz.com</a> is more defined. Torrentz.com is run by Flippy, considered one of the good guys in the BitTorrent community. Although his site has been online for over a year, it has been plauged by <a href=http://www.slyck.com/news.php?story=390 target="_blank">DMCA notices</a>, forcing the site to shut down earlier in 2004. Despite this closure, Torrentz.com would return in January of 2005. However with the <a href=http://www.slyck.com/news.php?story=637 target="_blank">MPAA crackdown</a>, this would prove to be temporary.

Although Torrentz.com was not issued any DMCA notification from the RIAA, MPAA or Microsoft this time, Flippy has informed Slyck.com that quite simply it was time to call it quits. For someone who is thankful to have a roof over his head, the decision, while regretful, is completely understandable.
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That's interesting

Postby lubczyk » Tue Feb 15, 2005 1:14 pm

That's very sad and interesting at the same time. Didn't it say on the Torrentz.com main page that they were safe from the riaa and the mpaa because they were hosted in China? At this point there really aren't that many big torrent sites left. The answer to this is to decentrialize exeem. I haven't been able to connect to the network since I upgraded to 0.21. Damn thing can't get a node connection.
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Postby mp3thief » Tue Feb 15, 2005 1:17 pm

for everyone that goes down, two more will spring up..while not as well known as some of these others..and therefore will have a lower torrent content.

i, for one, am not worried about this ploy by the MP@@. it's the same as the RI@@'s massive "sue 'em all" campaign...but we're still here.
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Postby Hostfat » Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:06 pm

I think that BitTorrent is not the good way to share this kind of data ( copyrighted ).
IMHO the best is always Overnet/eDonkey :)
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Postby Chiastic » Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:13 pm

I've got a question about this foreign (non-US) hosting of websites business that maybe the more legally inclined around here can help answer.

If the guy running Torrentz.com is a US citizen residing in the US (and therefore necessarily administering the site from within the US), does the physical location of the site's host really shield him from being sued by the **AAs for contributory infringement?

I realize that the content industry is powerless to force the site itself offline due to China's, err, lack of respect for US copyright law, but the idea that the guy would be completely off the hook when he was running the site from within the US strikes me as just a little bit unlikely.

After all, it's not like the **AAs can't sue somebody in New York for uploading a protected work to somebody in Laos.
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few die few more are born

Postby nacho32 » Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:26 pm

:shock:
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Postby Drake » Tue Feb 15, 2005 3:16 pm

This is weird. Flippy hasn't even posted an announcement on Filesoup yet. Torrentz.com was a great index site, it's too bad that it's gone.
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Postby Frozen Mule » Tue Feb 15, 2005 3:42 pm

Shame alot of good sites are now gone :cry:
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Postby pimptaddy » Tue Feb 15, 2005 5:14 pm

this will pass.. knock one down, two more take its place.. they are fighting an uphill battle..
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Postby Mel_Smiley_VIP » Tue Feb 15, 2005 5:27 pm

That was true in the past but now people look at what happened to Loki and take down their sites because they are afraid. IMO I doubt many will just pop up anymore.
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Postby Asuran » Tue Feb 15, 2005 5:38 pm

Chiastic wrote:I've got a question about this foreign (non-US) hosting of websites business that maybe the more legally inclined around here can help answer.

If the guy running Torrentz.com is a US citizen residing in the US (and therefore necessarily administering the site from within the US), does the physical location of the site's host really shield him from being sued by the **AAs for contributory infringement?

I realize that the content industry is powerless to force the site itself offline due to China's, err, lack of respect for US copyright law, but the idea that the guy would be completely off the hook when he was running the site from within the US strikes me as just a little bit unlikely.

After all, it's not like the **AAs can't sue somebody in New York for uploading a protected work to somebody in Laos.


Either way they can't sue him if they don't know who he is, in fact they don't even know that he IS from the US. The only way to his identity would be via the site in China, but if that is secured then that's pretty much it then.
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Postby Nick » Tue Feb 15, 2005 5:55 pm

Chiastic wrote:I've got a question about this foreign (non-US) hosting of websites business that maybe the more legally inclined around here can help answer.

If the guy running Torrentz.com is a US citizen residing in the US (and therefore necessarily administering the site from within the US), does the physical location of the site's host really shield him from being sued by the **AAs for contributory infringement?

I realize that the content industry is powerless to force the site itself offline due to China's, err, lack of respect for US copyright law, but the idea that the guy would be completely off the hook when he was running the site from within the US strikes me as just a little bit unlikely.

After all, it's not like the **AAs can't sue somebody in New York for uploading a protected work to somebody in Laos.


The legal position is governed by what passes for International Law, and the applicable legal jurisdiction is deemed to that in which the law was broken in the first instance. In this case, the registered owner of the site is liable under US law.

If it were the other way around, the **AAs wouldn't have a leg to stand on as the UK courts do not recognise US law. For that matter, downloading is perfectly legal in the UK and (so far) nobody has been prosecuted for uploading.

I would think that anyone uploading any copyright material within the USA (irrespective of destination) would therefore be liable under US law.
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Postby Mel_Smiley_VIP » Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:03 pm

http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/5700.cfm

British Phonographic Industry, the UK equivalent of the RIAA, has won the first court round in its fight against British P2P users, when British courts granted a court order against 28 P2P users BPI raided earlier this month. The court order means that users' ISPs have to hand over users' personal details (names and addresses) within 14 days to the BPI.
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Postby shoko_sama » Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:11 pm

Mel_Smiley_VIP wrote:British Phonographic Industry, the UK equivalent of the RIAA, has won the first court round in its fight against British P2P users, when British courts granted a court order against 28 P2P users BPI raided earlier this month. The court order means that users' ISPs have to hand over users' personal details (names and addresses) within 14 days to the BPI.


Interesting... Seems as though that's more stringent than a recent ruling in the US. Wasn't it Charter Communications (a U.S. ISP), irrc, that just won a case relating to them NOT having to provide account info?
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Postby _eAgLe_ » Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:20 pm

Why are the MPAA wasting there precious time..... If you shut 1 torrent site down, another comes up as we all know..... They've got to be the dumbest people in the world.... Why dont they try starting there own torrent site (only for movies) and get info from there!?!?!?!..... Or would this be illegal for them??

:roll:
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Postby Assyrian » Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:46 pm

still more sites out there lads cheer up :)
away.
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Postby Mel_Smiley_VIP » Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:51 pm

IlL-eAgLe wrote:Why are the MPAA wasting there precious time..... If you shut 1 torrent site down, another comes up as we all know..... They've got to be the dumbest people in the world.... Why dont they try starting there own torrent site (only for movies) and get info from there!?!?!?!..... Or would this be illegal for them??

:roll:



Im hoping that would be illegal. They would have to prove the downloader would have downloaded elsewhere anyway or it would be entrapment.
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Postby Nick » Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:13 pm

WOW. The "News" about the court orders applied for by the BPI really got me worried.

Until I found out that the article that was referred to was dated October 14th 2004.

Those applications I managed to track down were dismissed by the court at judicial review. As far as I am able to tell, there has not been a single case brought against anyone involving P2P in the UK

Uploading could well be considered illegal, but we work on the law of precedent in the UK, many Eu countries and almost all Commonwealth countries. Until there has actually been a case brought and won, there is little threat to people.

Downloading, however, is legal.
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Postby Shin Gouki » Wed Feb 16, 2005 1:07 am

Does anyone have a link to the UK download and upload laws?

You say that donwloading is legal in the UK but when you use BT you automatically upload as welll as download.
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Postby _eAgLe_ » Wed Feb 16, 2005 1:12 am

Shin Gouki said
You say that donwloading is legal in the UK but when you use BT you automatically upload as welll as download.


Shin Gouki, i think what people mean by 'uploading' is 'uploading' a .torrent to a torrent site, and seeding it, not simply uploading while your downloading a torrent. Well thats me anyways.
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Postby Shin Gouki » Wed Feb 16, 2005 1:55 am

IlL-eAgLe wrote:Shin Gouki said
You say that donwloading is legal in the UK but when you use BT you automatically upload as welll as download.


Shin Gouki, i think what people mean by 'uploading' is 'uploading' a .torrent to a torrent site, and seeding it, not simply uploading while your downloading a torrent. Well thats me anyways.


What about if you continue to upload the file after youv'e downloaded it?
:D
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Postby Shin Gouki » Wed Feb 16, 2005 2:05 am

Ok, according to this http://www.dmeurope.com/default.asp?ArticleID=1730 and a few other articles i've read, downloading movies in the UK is "illegal".

Can someone post a link that tells me otherwise?

If there is a law on downloading and uploading movies, etc, etc, then can someone provide me with a link please?

I want to know the "facts" not just things i read on forums or news sites.
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Postby takeda » Wed Feb 16, 2005 2:26 am

mp3thief wrote:for everyone that goes down, two more will spring up..while not as well known as some of these others..and therefore will have a lower torrent content.

i, for one, am not worried about this ploy by the MP@@. it's the same as the RI@@'s massive "sue 'em all" campaign...but we're still here.

The weakest link in torrent are the www, they're central and is easy to shut them down. Much better would be to post torrents on news servers, or even by IRC networks which allow IP masquarading.

freenet would be perfect, but it's really slow, anyone know faster alternatives?

We should utilize everything that is available, i.e. upload torrents using TOR. I think it would be helpful to have conversion tool to convert torrent in small text file (compress it and base64 perhaps?). So we could use some already popular mediums to transfer them.

Any programers here? I think those ideas might be helpful for NG of torrent.

I think we should brainstorm ideas how torrent files might be transferred.

DNS seemed to be good, but you can still shutdown the domain :( Or maybe there are domains, that MPAA cannot do anything about?
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Postby takeda » Wed Feb 16, 2005 2:33 am

IlL-eAgLe wrote:Why are the MPAA wasting there precious time..... If you shut 1 torrent site down, another comes up as we all know..... They've got to be the dumbest people in the world.... Why dont they try starting there own torrent site (only for movies) and get info from there!?!?!?!..... Or would this be illegal for them??
:roll:


They really arent, actually I would say that action with lokitorrent.com was their best so far. People now are affraid with new sites.

Anyway what with http://thepiratebay.org/ ?

Looks like they're really arogant: http://static.thepiratebay.org/legal/
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Postby Drake » Wed Feb 16, 2005 2:39 am

takeda wrote:Anyway what with http://thepiratebay.org/ ?

Looks like they're really arogant: http://static.thepiratebay.org/legal/


They're just having a little fun. :)

Eventually, the MPAA will get to them too but for now I consider them to be the heroes of BT.
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