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DMCA 2.0?

Postby IceCube » Wed Apr 26, 2006 8:49 am

Whoever said that things couldn't be any worse is probably eating his/her hat right now. <a href=http://news.com.com/2100-1028_3-6064016.html?part=rss&tag=6064016&subj=news target=_blank>CNET News</a> is reporting that there are proposals to expand copyright restrictions on the DMCA. Such additions would include coverage on devices or software that have the ability to circumvent copy protection (AKA DRM - Digital Rights Management), and willful copyright infringement.

Lamar Smith, a Republican politician, has introduced this piece of legislation on behalf of the Bush administration who wrote it. Not surprisingly, the RIAA also backs this legislation. Other people that back this legislation are the SIIA (Software and Information Industry Association) - whose board of directors include representatives of Symantec, Sun Microsystems, Oracle, Intuit and Red Hat.

During a recent episode of <a href=http://www.twit.tv target=_blank>TWiT</a>, one of the hosts commented on how broad the legislation is, and how it could prove to be a chilling effect for end users as well as cause some problems for lawyers.

One part that is particularly interesting is the willfulness to commit copyright infringement. Even an attempt to "commit copyright infringement" could lead to the individual being behind bars for ten years. The question is, what qualifies an attempt? Would being in the progress of downloading copyrighted material qualify? Would performing a search qualify? Would talking about it qualify?

One might point out that if these new laws get put in place, Sony BMG would be able to legally pursue anyone that stated that the <a href=http://www.slyck.com/news.php?story=997 target=_blank>rootkit DRM</a> opens up large security holes in consumers computers. While this may serve up as a chilling effect, one may wonder how any forms of spyware or adware would come into play with these potential new laws.

While Big Four record labels have gained a temporary step forward on these issues, the long term effects are already being widely debated. Some companies that operate under a Creative Commons licensing scheme have expressed optimism over the potential positive effects of the content they produce. One pointed out that as the large companies restrict their content, their content would enjoy a much more relaxed environment. He even goes further and mentions how companies with the most successful content protection schemes also went out of business while companies that had their products the most pirated are also the most successful. While there might not be any statistical backing to these comments, a simple search on a file-sharing network might just support that claim.
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Postby ArchiveAngel » Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:16 am

People are always trying to see how much they can get away with. For instance, by introducing draconian legislation and eroding freedom bit by bit. I'm not surprised this is coming from the Bush administration :(
Lets hope repression fails and common sense prevails.
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Postby tay_highfield » Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:32 am

ArchiveAngel wrote:Lets hope repression fails and common sense prevails.


Unfortunately common sense never seems to prevail when politicians are handed...sorry 'donated' large sums of money by certain well known organisations.

I just feel lucky I am based outside of the USA and so such restrictive laws won't effect me, also hope such laws don't quickly spread!
Should really think of something to put here.
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Postby jokster » Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:49 am

Ahhh... blindness and bribery how well they go together.
Smells a bit like Berlin 1939 or an Orwellian 1984 to me

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Postby macike » Wed Apr 26, 2006 10:35 am

I would like to say I am shocked at all this. But I am not.
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Postby GraphiX » Wed Apr 26, 2006 11:01 am

does the DMCA stand word wide or just USA?
and what is it with the USA lately

they used to be the freedom of choice when ever my parents spoke about the usa the words i heard most offten with them is "freedom" and the american way now all i hear about the USA is its punishing and treating every single one of its people like potential pirates or terrorists

i used to think the usa people would put up and stand for nothing like if they decided to put up your gas prices there would be a massive war or outcry but once again im shocked to see that all that seems to be happening in the usa is restrict this restrict you from that damn....

my friends in the usa say to me how do you survive over in england with all the bullshit and prices?

now im thinking the same about the usa people now
just why do you put up with it?
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Postby Nick » Wed Apr 26, 2006 11:04 am

The DMCA is another item of US bolt-on legislation to ensure compliance with WIPO, and affects only those living within the jurisdiction of the USA.

Have no fears, the European version is known as the EUCD and has already been implemented in the UK through changes to existing legislation (the CDPA).

Sorry about all the initials, but in the final analysis, none of this has made a great deal of practical difference in the far less litigious UK. I suspect that it will make a big difference in the US, though.

On another point, my American friends keep asking me why we put up with paying higher prices for everything and then become amazed that you can take a product back to the place you bought it from 6 months later and demand a full refund. Can't have it both ways, I suspect.
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Postby GraphiX » Wed Apr 26, 2006 11:11 am

nick would i be right in saying that if i made or hosted any Anti DRM removal services in the uk on uk soil on uk servers then i wouldn't be breaking the dmca rules as it wouldn't apply here?

and also why dont they just move all the content and the tools to services of the people living in the same country as where the piratebay is hosted?

that is just something i can't understand if the country where the piratebay can't be touched by anyone then why hasn't everything been distro'd from there since that now seems a "safer" place

but no i only know of the piratebay for torrent services for instance that originates there

i thought it would be like p2p servers shut down so people just move to the next network that shuts down they continue just moving but seems no-one else torrent/site wise has decided to open shop in the piratebay land how come?
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Postby Nick » Wed Apr 26, 2006 11:31 am

Well, the same laws about distributing copyright protection circumvention measures applies to all EU countries, under the terms of the EUCD, and it is therefore already against the law over here.

There is a serious grey area, which is that distribution is defined as a commercial activity. Meaning that it seems perfectly OK to give something away, but not to sell it. As far as I know, that is the way the law has been interpreted so far - and it's been several years so far.

The proposals in France and Germany go one stage further, they have ben slow to update their laws and now plan to make it unlawful to talk about copyright/DRM circumvention, link to it and so forth. It is doubtful they can get away with thet, but that is the way they are talking at the moment.
http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker/news/72085

But, there again, it's no news to most of us to hear that the German government is trying to exercise control over what people say or think ;-)
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Postby GraphiX » Wed Apr 26, 2006 11:36 am

thank you nick for your rapid response times regarding these subjects and your expert clear advice on the uk laws as it stands
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Postby Nick » Wed Apr 26, 2006 11:46 am

Welcome, mate ;-)
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Postby VSAMCluster » Wed Apr 26, 2006 11:51 am

Nick/Graphix,

I believe it was one of your countrymen that had the right idea... "First, we kill all the lawyers".

Unfortunately, I'm stuck here in the US. And although I raise as much ruckus as I can about these things, I sometimes feel that it is in vain.
I don't mind stealing bread from the mouth of decadence.
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Follow the Money

Postby devilwolf » Wed Apr 26, 2006 12:17 pm

I'm starting to think that since COngress no longer listens to the people, that we shold pressure the companies that own Congress Critter Lamar...

Most of Lamar money comes from groups that could care less about the public, but a few contributors are retail merchants.
4 Verizon Communications $7,750
5 Schering-Plough Corp $7,500
6 SBC Communications $7,350
10 Dell Computer $5,350
11 Wal-Mart Stores $5,000

http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/contrib.asp?CID=N00001811&cycle=2002


The draconian nature of DMCA 2.0 doesn't surprise me, I'm been cynically prodicting this for awhile. It was only a matter of time before the tactics of the War on Drugs got applied to the War on Piracy.

And although the WoD appears to be a failure, from the US govt POV it is a GREAT success, because the WoD generates 5 billion a year in local, state, federal spending, and a key benefit to the govt is ASSET FORFITURE.

Asset ForFITURE means as soon as someone is charged with piracy, the govt can seize ANY computer equipment )which these days would include Computers, DVR, Entertainment Centers, MP3 players, etc.)

Also if a person is running a tracking/NZB site and accepts donations, they can seize ANYTHING that the donate money was spent on, even if the donated money was only 1/10% of the value of the item.

The govt needs wars to stay in power,both external and internal. The WoD is losing its drive, and the WoP is needed to protect the law enforcement infrastructure.
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Postby zbeast » Wed Apr 26, 2006 12:28 pm

This is about US government trying to create draconian laws to protect there cooperate media masters. This will let corporations tell you want you can look at what you can buy what you can download. What software you can possess. It could band P2P software, CD ROM burning software, CD copying software. Mod chips. reverse engineering. Take a look people. Write the eff Write your congressmen you have to stop this. Dont lay there and say it does not applied to you. Yes, yes it does. it could be your child it could be you. Looking at being tossed into jail for bullshit.
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Postby eclectica » Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:32 pm

The DMCA was passed using the excuse that it was to bring the U. S., as a World Trade Organization member, in step with the requirements of the World Intellectual Property Organization. Yet other countries like Sweden are also WTO members and are less oppressive regarding digital freedom. So that makes me wonder how much WIPO is a factor in the formation of oppressive laws against digital freedoms, or if it is more of an excuse used by politicians who don't want to take the heat for passing unpopular laws.
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Postby MrFredPFL » Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:34 pm

eclectica wrote:or if it is more of an excuse used by politicians who don't want to take the heat for passing unpopular laws.


sadly, i don't think there's much doubt about that :cry:
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Postby Nick » Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:59 pm

Actually Sweden is a member state which has been deemed compliant with the EUCD, and therefore fully compliant with the latest WIPO requirements.

The laws are just as draconian in Sweden as those now being proposed in the USA, the principle difference lying more in the way that such laws are interpreted and applied than the words used in their drafting. For example, the EUCD has hardly impacted on anyone living in the UK.

Common sense comes into the equation somewhere, but that seems to be an ingredient sadly missing in the American formula.

The only winners arising from the US obsession with excessive litigation are the politicians and the lawyers, who are all too often one and the same.
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Postby nJectid » Wed Apr 26, 2006 2:16 pm

GraphiX wrote:...they used to be the freedom of choice when ever my parents spoke about the usa the words i heard most offten with them is "freedom" and the american way now all i hear about the USA is its punishing and treating every single one of its people like potential pirates or terrorists

i used to think the usa people would put up and stand for nothing like if they decided to put up your gas prices there would be a massive war or outcry but once again im shocked to see that all that seems to be happening in the usa is restrict this restrict you from that damn...


As a child I was always told this is the 'land of the free and home of the brave'. That we were a land of people that stood up for what was right. Yet, over the past few years I find myself thinking more and more that I want to leave this 'wonderful' land some day.

This is a land of having money and power, not freedom. And if you are not going along with the commercial agenda, then you are the enemy and will be delt with. :evil:

I think a lot of problems would be drammatically easier if not solved if two things were to happen...
1.) Completely get rid of the electoral system and computerize the entire electoral process.
2.) Ban all commercial contributions and limit private contributions to lawmakers and politicians.

I'm not saying that politicians wouldn't cheat either if not both of these, but it might be a start.
It's a pirate's life for me.
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Postby Herne » Wed Apr 26, 2006 2:57 pm

SlyckNick wrote:The DMCA is another item of US bolt-on legislation to ensure compliance with WIPO, and affects only those living within the jurisdiction of the USA.

Have no fears, the European version is known as the EUCD and has already been implemented in the UK through changes to existing legislation (the CDPA).


All I can say is, I hope to heaven we never ratify WIPO here in Canada--it sounds like a bloody nightmare.

Sorry about all the initials, but in the final analysis, none of this has made a great deal of practical difference in the far less litigious UK. I suspect that it will make a big difference in the US, though.


What worries me, though, is the tendency of the Americans towards extra-territoriality, as you allude to in your .sig line.

As I've mentioned elsewhere, what really concerns me is the application of the MLAT (Mutual Legal Assistance Treaties). If the U.S. goes through with this absolutely idiotic law, I wonder if Canadian file-sharers might find themselves charged under this Act?

There is a precendent for this.... the Marc Emery case. In case you're not familiar with it, Marc Emery, the so-called "Prince of Pot" has been selling marijuana seeds to Canadians, Americans and others via mail order through his web site. Technically, the sale of viable marijuana seeds is illegal in Canada, but the law has gone essentially unenforced for years. Emery has been arrested maybe two-dozen times, fined once or twice (on the order of $100 or so) and has spent maybe a day in jail each time. The Americans are not happy with this, so the American Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) obtained a warrant under MLAT, and Emery was arrested in Canada and is being charged by the U.S. authorities. He now has to fight extradition to the U.S., where he faces the possibility of life in prison.

I have wondered, if this over-the-top copyright law ever gets passed, whether it will be used against Canadian file-sharers. Will the next Marc Emery be from the file-sharing community?
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Postby penguin15793 » Wed Apr 26, 2006 3:27 pm

this is scary, but so is the email tax, and a bunch of other bills and suggestions that won't get passed, just like the induce act, idk what ever happened to it, but that never got passed, it was outrageous and too broad, basically stated the same thing as this , well, "anything that aids piracy is illegal" then ther was that pirate act, that would turn anyone who pirated stuff into a federal criminal, never happened, neither will this, the systems corrupt and anyone can be bribed, but at some points those so called representatives of the united states realize what they are doing, and realize that they are turning theWHOLE united states into criminals...


end of my rant.

i also like how it was said that it's suggested that most software companies that don't implement copyprotections are more succesfull, that's probably the truth, it may be easy to get downloaded stuff, but every fiel out there more or less has a few restrictions because it's downloaded (can't upgrade, a certain feature doesn't work, etc.) therefore, people buy it, knowing that it is a program that they will like (since they already tried that)
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Postby hacker90 » Wed Apr 26, 2006 3:30 pm

This bill being proposed... Do you have the exact names of the Reps sponsoring it? I need to clean out the "house".

Hacker
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Postby devilwolf » Wed Apr 26, 2006 3:42 pm

Herne wrote:
I have wondered, if this over-the-top copyright law ever gets passed, whether it will be used against Canadian file-sharers. Will the next Marc Emery be from the file-sharing community?


I think that MLAT abuse will get very common, and not just by the US. Germany and France have their own issues they want to enforce online - such a persecuting anyone who questions the offical history of WWII in any way that is sympathetic to the nazis... that is scary enuff, but imagine if Islamic States can use MLAT to get critics of Islamic extradited.

Most of the world's government can agree on at least one thing...

Freedom is bad.... and most of the govts and large corporations are willing to work together to suppress freedom.
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Postby nikt » Wed Apr 26, 2006 3:54 pm

devilwolf wrote:

Freedom is bad.... and most of the govts and large corporations are willing to work together to suppress freedom.


They are doing great job.And always looking for new opportunities.
Convicted filesharer would make a perfect slave in USA private prison system.[/quote]
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Postby webe3 » Wed Apr 26, 2006 3:59 pm

To you people living outside of Amnerica...QUIT ACTING LIKE ORDINARY AMERICANS ARE THE ONES DOING THIS! This REALLY ticks me off at the attitude ofsome people about America here on slyck! It seems like all you want to do is "bash America" for one reason or another! Hell, I DON'T agree with this legislation and I live in America!

What the hell is your problem? You want to blame EVERYONE in America because a few powerful lobbyists want to push through legislation that first of all, probably won't pass and secondly not everyone in the US is for? That is pretty stupid.

I have said it before and I will say it again for the hard of hearing....not EVERYONE in America supports or sponsors this legislation...so QUIT ACTING LIKE THEY DO! There are organizations like the EFF that are fighting this tooth and nail and for those of you who don't believe that ordinary Americans are trying to make a difference, look at THIS petition against the RIAA!

http://slyck.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=21889

Not everyone in America is FOR this piece of legislation and if the truth is told, it is mainly only in the minds of a few idiots in the music and movie industry that are trying to sway congress to get this stuff passed.

If you have any better ideas then why don't you try to put them forth instead of just comming out looking like you want to juump ordinary americans for something they didn't have anything to do with in the first place?!

Rant over.
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Postby Ronny » Wed Apr 26, 2006 4:17 pm

webe3 wrote:To you people living outside of Amnerica...QUIT ACTING LIKE ORDINARY AMERICANS ARE THE ONES DOING THIS! This REALLY ticks me off at the attitude ofsome people about America here on slyck! It seems like all you want to do is "bash America" for one reason or another! Hell, I DON'T agree with this legislation and I live in America!


Well, good american citizens voted the political bastards into office, and the same political bastards are now screwing the entire world. Yeah, I blame the americans.

Have you ever heard the quote "The people always gets the government they deserve"? :twisted:

You don't agree with this legislation? Fine. So, what exactly have you done to fight it? Driven to McDonalds and bought a happy meal? :lol:
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