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Bitting the bitter

Postby NarcAngel » Sun Feb 26, 2006 7:37 pm

Up until a few months ago, I was using RB on a regular basis. Then, all of a sudden, coming out no where I was hit by an email from my ISP warning me that a Silicon Valley company (which I really don't need to name as most of you will know which one I am talking about) had warn them they I had been caught d/l and distributing a 197(x) movie (dub in Spanish which I don't even understand).

Since then, since the tone of the email was very much full of threats of legal recourse. I had to come to a pitiful conclusion that p2p had become too dangerous for me.

I had to think a lot before writing this opinion. I came to many conclusions one of which was how easy it can be to be lead by my own emotions when writing a reply to something.

You see, as much as I would like it not to be the case, most of RB's files were illegal files of all natures. I would d/l files which I felt I needed and knew I couldn't pay for since I simply have little money to start with. This said, I would never state that, if you are poor, you should have the right to steal. But at the same time, I enjoy so little pleasure being poor, why not?

And so, here is my logic. Who ever is behind pulling the plug on RB2 is doing exactly what I am doing, just in reverse. I'm trying to get the files, they are trying to get me. Hunter, hunted, life. Whatever mean I use to get the file, that's up to me, but I know that someone out there will try and make sure I don't get the files. I think about it and say to myself "Alright!" all is fair and square. I don't mind being tracked down as I know that I am cruising on a "another" road.

We read the statement they put out for closing down RB2 and we get offended by words they use. I don't really care about the words, they try and do what they think they must do so to protect they billions of dollars. No problem, that's fair. Of course, in saying this, I won't be very popular with you guys.

Now, as far as RB2 itself. Some say, the hell with RB2, just move on to another server. Some say, they is a setback. I'm pretty leaning toward the setback myself. I know RB2 by heart, I know how powerful it was and how good it was to find links with very little clients out there. Of course, the most popular files are never really affected that much, but I rarely d/l files which have 100+ hits out there. Most of my d/l will be down from 50 and some even at 1 or 2 providers (try and get some anthropology books on eDonkey). And yes, they are also illegal to get, and yes, I find this somewhat repulsive as I cannot even get a legal education. But again, all is fair, the author must have a living, the company which supports the author has workers which also must have a living.

And so, splitting one big server into many little servers isn't a plus in my opinion, it is a minus for those little servers will only mean having a much harder time getting a file.

In the end, another server will pick up the void, it will grow and probably be attacked too. The rates of the attacks will become very much the main issue. The rates itself will be the significance between just a boring small tremor to a giant earthquake throughout the p2p community.

But to recap. Hunters and hunted, that's kind of normal and expected when traveling on this "other" road.

Anyway, that's my bull... I just wanted to vent it off somewhat. Hoping that you won't take it as a total waist of reading time.

And for the guys behind RB2, well, they knew that they were threading on a dangerous wire, they slipped and hopefuly they will never come to regret what they provided, this hard work they also provided. Best of luck guys.
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Postby Exothermicus » Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:11 pm

Red_Blue wrote:
Exothermicus wrote:This only would work only if the drive is powered down. What if “they” come equipped with a USB drive and a bootable CD-ROM like Koppix, and clone the drive without powering down?
That's a factor only if they know about this weak locking system being used. Standard computer forensic techniques call for pulling the plug on the to be confiscated machine, taking the drives to a lab and cloning them there to separate databases for further analysis.

Could the platters be transferred from one drive to another to recover the locked data?
As long as the data exists in the drive unencrypted, it's pretty trivial to recover it in a lab. There are data recovery companies which can recover data from HDs burned and their electronics completely destroyed, only by extracting a map of the magnetic alignment properties of the platter surfaces in a specially designed cleanroom lab. Sure it's expensive as hell, but it's taxpayer's money you are wasting in using such a weak system.

It's much much better to encrypt the data and keep the keys stored somewhere safe (and themselves encrypted with a good "brain compliant" passphrase).


Here is a white paper on how S.M.A.R.T. features can be used to twart covert forensic attempts to clone a hard drive: http://members.ozemail.com.au/~steven.mcleod/SMART_Anti_Forensics.pdf

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Postby Red_Blue » Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:32 pm

Exothermicus wrote:Here is a white paper on how S.M.A.R.T. features can be used to twart covert forensic attempts to clone a hard drive:
No it isn't. It's an interesting paper on how malware can detect that a drive was cloned, but it is completely irrelevant to the problem of preventing the drive from being cloned with the data intact.

I'm not so sure this has any real applicability to computer forensics in the type of criminal investigations we are interested anyhow (the kind when someone comes through your door to take your HD away, instead of you taking your HD to the police). It does have some relevance in analysing malware or ongoing remote attacks in a sandbox environment. Just like malware can attempt to identify if it's been debugged or ran in a VM and then bomb or halt to make further analysis more difficult, it can do it also based on this to check whether it has been cloned and then adapt counteranalysis behavior accordingly.
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New no-fake serverlist!

Postby fjaaaaan » Sun Mar 05, 2006 6:11 am

When gruk went down they started this..

http://met.serverlist.info/server.met

Get more info here --> http://www.serverlist.info
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Re: New no-fake serverlist!

Postby lordpake » Sun Mar 05, 2006 2:47 pm

fjaaaaan wrote:When gruk went down they started this..

http://met.serverlist.info/server.met

Get more info here --> http://www.serverlist.info


Strange that I do not remember seeing any kind of post regarding this in eMule-project, for example.
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Re: New no-fake serverlist!

Postby fjaaaaan » Sun Mar 05, 2006 6:00 pm

lordpake wrote:
fjaaaaan wrote:When gruk went down they started this..

http://met.serverlist.info/server.met

Get more info here --> http://www.serverlist.info


Strange that I do not remember seeing any kind of post regarding this in eMule-project, for example.


Well, if u see anything suspicious with this serverlist then the link should be removed! But it seemed ok 2 me...
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Postby bitz » Mon Mar 06, 2006 8:09 am

At this point should there even be any ed2k servers? Maybe someone can explain the justification behind them still being needed and what makes the risk of running them worthwhile.

Granted if there are a few other peers interested, we could make some sites with clean server.met's. However like I said I do not see the need or reason behind even running such servers anymore.
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Don't you cry :)

Postby silverfast » Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:18 am

This is my first post on Slyck's, so hello everyone and i do hope not to make a fool out of myself. Hope you will like what you read from me below.

My three cents about Razorback's death, especially to those worried ones. There is *no* reason to cry and there is also a good reason or few to be happy:

1. For each and every action there is a reaction. It's a proven and well known fact. So for every major ed2k server killed will be a few even more superior ones built. It will go for years and years, unless people simply don't like ed2k and stop supporting the network.

1a. There is no way whatsoever to stop people from sharing if they want to. Same as there is no way to make people quit smoking or drinking beer if they want to do so. Simple as that.

2. I wish i could shake Razorback admin's hand in personal one day. That guy did hell of a good work together with his friend. But i have to say also that he is the reason for which ed2k network got weaker for a while now. The power of ed2k community is in the multiple server installations. We can see clearly now what happens when a major server in a highly centralized network dies or gets killed. So, Razorback made people very comfortable and they started to forget about other servers which was *bad* by definition. Hope we all learn a lesson or two from this and simply become smarter, as a p2p community consisting of users and potential admins.

3. All those RIAA/MPA officials had simply proven one more time how jerky they are. I'm also more than surprised to hear that even superior swiss police got involved in this crap. Such actions against so large community of people all over the world make me sick. And that statement, where we were all named criminals, molesters, thieves, terrorists and such makes me even more sick. And as usual, they hit the most easy target - a single guy, not even an organized group of "thieves" as it would take them much more work. It makes me recall a "famous" legal action against a US teenager because of a few mp3 files traded over some p2p network. This is what RIAA/MPA is all about, they can only dream of going after *real* stealers, thus attacking innocent individuals and pumping the baloon up.

3a. If such actions continue to grow, they will only make things worse for RIAA/MPA. Why is that? Simply put people will realise that buying CDs and DVDs means to support that mafia and giving them more power to fight against... supporters. Millions will just stop buying and they will become even more dedicated to leeching files of their choice online. I still buy because i don't really believe in quality "rips" of any kind and prefer to collect "real stuff". But if this shit continuous i will be the first to demonstrate against RIAA/MPA by denying to buy any more copyrighted material and will share this idea with all the people i know.

Once again, don't worry girls! You will see that in no time there will be a few more superior (or at least comparable) servers out there for you to join. I'm a fan of ed2k and not because i leech alot. I just love to browse tru millions of files of all genres for the fun of it. It's a nice thing to be able to search for whatever and always get results and quickly. In fact i don't even have enough bandwidth to leech anything bigger than, say, 10MB. And such greedy and short-minded lamers at RIAA/MPA and Co. should realise this finally, that there are hundreds of thousands like me out there. Not everyone is on the network to steal 24/7 and big time. And even if one grabs a movie or an album, they often go and buy them a while after. While if someone can't afford that... it will really make no difference if they download or not, as they wouldn't buy it anyway. So simple so it hurts that some idiots can't get it.

Cheers everyone and happy peering :)
Last edited by silverfast on Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:41 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Don't you cry people :)

Postby silverfast » Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:23 am

hmm sorry for double post, not sure what happened.
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Postby lordpake » Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:54 pm

bitz wrote:At this point should there even be any ed2k servers? Maybe someone can explain the justification behind them still being needed and what makes the risk of running them worthwhile.


Some clients still depend on the servers, such as those who can not use Kad because of limitations on their hardware (crappy routers and stuff that have probs with the number of connections created by Kad, I believe) and clients that simply lack the support for Kad, such as eMule Plus. Secondly, new users currently need a server connection in order to be able to bootstrap and thus even connect to Kad.
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Re: Don't you cry :)

Postby fjaaaaan » Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:32 pm

silverfast wrote:And even if one grabs a movie or an album, they often go and buy them a while after. While if someone can't afford that... it will really make no difference if they download or not, as they wouldn't buy it anyway. So simple so it hurts that some idiots can't get it.


Good point there! Very nice first post! :D
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Postby tay_highfield » Thu Apr 27, 2006 10:10 am

Sorry to drag this story up from the dead but I was wondering if anyone had any news on the Razorback team?

Legal situation?
Planning a new Razorback?
Evidence gathered?
Charges against them?

That sort of info...I have tried googling but there doesn't seem to be any recent updates to the story.
Should really think of something to put here.
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