Slyck.com
 
Slyck Chatbox - And More

EMI Attacks France

Discuss Slyck's latest news
Forum rules
PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING: Slyck Forum Rules

EMI Attacks France

Postby SlyckTom » Sun Jan 22, 2006 4:07 pm

Last month, the French National Assembly marginally passed a "global license" proposal that would allow the sharing of music and movie files for personal use. Under the proposed legislation, French Internet users would see their monthly service fee increase by €5. The legislation was initially designed to substantiate Culture Minister Renaud Donnedieu de Vabres desire to increase penalties of those convicted of piracy. However the pro-P2P verbiage negated this drive.

Judging from the reaction of the file-sharing community, the proposal has been greeted favorably. The consensus largely agrees that spending an additional 5 Euros per month seems like a small price to pay if it means absolutely avoiding the IFPI's lawsuit campaign. Considering the amount of Internet users in France, the addition of 5 Euros per netizen would likely generate a substantial revenue stream to offset any claimed losses to Internet piracy.

The circumstances surrounding the proposed legislation left many clamoring its doom. During the vote, only 58 out of the lower house’s 577 total members were in attendance. For certain, the legislation would be swept under the rug, never to be heard from again.

Yet it now appears there is growing support for the proposal within the French government. While it’s likely this legislation will not become law in its current iteration, it has greatly raised awareness of the issues surrounding this debate. In fact, the debate has reached to the top of the French government, as on January 9, 2006, President Jacque Chirac was <a href=http://www.newcriminologist.co.uk/news.asp?id=761971200 target=_blank>quoted</a> by Reuters as saying the following:

"It's with creative people that we will win in the battle over content. We should guarantee their rights and their fair payment, by finding a balance between the fight against piracy and user freedom."

Indeed fascinating words spoken by President Chirac. With President Chirac giving credence to the debate, the entertainment industry has been quick to stomp out growing support for this amendment.

Calling the move a setback, EMI chairman Eric Nicoli gave a speech yesterday at MidemNet, in Cannes France. MidemNet is a yearly music industry trade fair designed to discuss many topics, including policy, strategies and of course, politics. During Mr. Nicoli’s speech, he warned of dire consequences if France’s pro-P2P legislation becomes law.

“It would be remiss of me to come to France and not to offer an opinion on that decision. France has always respected copyright and supported the creative industries, so it seems an aberration that the country has taken a first step towards a ‘global licence’.

“If France continues down this road, it could jeopardize the promising growth we’re now seeing in the legitimate online market. Many French artists, authors, indies, majors, film producers and entertainment retailers have expressed their strong opposition to the proposed ‘global licence’ and to other detrimental proposals.”

Yet judging by public support and the desire of President Chirac to find “a balance”, continuing down “this road” may be exactly what the French government may do. To what extent is the real question, as powerful lobby groups, such as the French entertainment juggernaut Vivendi Universal, will certainly participate in what will become a national debate.
Follow us on Twitter @SlyckDotCom
Join our Facebook Fan page
SlyckTom
 
Posts: 5713
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2002 7:22 pm
Location: New York City

Postby who_me » Sun Jan 22, 2006 4:17 pm

EMI Attacks France


i have some French military rifles for sale.... never fired only dropped once any1 interested?
:lol:
who_me
 
Posts: 303
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:49 am

Postby WildHeart » Sun Jan 22, 2006 4:22 pm

It's becoming harder and harder to judge what's happening re this situation. I'm beginning to think that there will be no new legislation--or at least none that significantly alters the status quo.
Last edited by WildHeart on Sun Jan 22, 2006 5:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for."
- Will Rogers -
User avatar
WildHeart
 
Posts: 6025
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 2:09 am
Location: In the Wild

Postby Nick » Sun Jan 22, 2006 4:39 pm

A good report, Tom. And fair comments Wildheart.

In many respects I feel that the French proposal amounts to what we used to call a curate’s egg, in other words, good in parts. The concept of being able to copy music you already own without the constraint of DRM is something that people should be able to take for granted. The idea of allowing downloading for a fixed monthly fee is again an excellent idea. But the statutory damages for those caught sharing is, in my opinion, far too high a price to pay. I’m not sure our friends in France have given quite enough thought to this, and I fear that they may yet live to regret things.

(Simplified: For those reading who don’t know what I’m on about, domestic filesharing is a civil issue. In the UK and most other countries (with the notable exceptions of the USA, Canada and Finland, but possibly others) the copyright owner has to prove actual damages – or quantify their losses. In the USA, Canada, Finland, etc, a system of statutory damages exists where the copyright owner has the right to demand fixed damages per infringement – even if they haven’t suffered any specific losses. This is pretty much an alien concept under English law)
Nick
 
Posts: 3840
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 7:38 am

Postby Dormant707 » Sun Jan 22, 2006 4:58 pm

Nice article Tom.

Chiraq's quote bothers me a little:

"It's with creative people that we will win in the battle over content. We should guarantee their rights and their fair payment, by finding a balance between the fight against piracy and user freedom."


The wording is very ambiguous. There is too much scope for Mon. Chiraq to manoevure. Reading in between the lines - he acknowledges the protests of the Media Cartel$ and he is aware of piracy... but on the other hand, a lot of voters are downloading, and he is aware of turning people into cannon fodder....

This will be a fascinating path to follow in the next few months/years.
Dormant707
 
Posts: 5067
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 5:03 pm

Postby obiwan » Sun Jan 22, 2006 5:38 pm

Please do NOT comment any of the Mr.Chiraq ( corrupted french president, who will be himself charged on the very first day he steps down from presidency ! ) statements.
User avatar
obiwan
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 5:26 pm

Postby Affliction » Sun Jan 22, 2006 6:13 pm

obiwan wrote:Please do NOT comment any of the Mr.Chiraq ( corrupted french president, who will be himself charged on the very first day he steps down from presidency ! ) statements.

Hmm as I see it Chiraq will nuke terrorist countries who attack France. Power to them and I agree with this. There must be a sufficient threat of reprisal to counter terrorist threats. These terrorists must now think of their own collateral damage if they attack a soverein country. And I like the fact that he agrees with the public on this issue of filesharing even tho it spits in the face of artists; Big music has finally done it and pissed off someone in power. Artists deserve to be paid so this is not the end of this.
I love my Rotweiller!
User avatar
Affliction
 
Posts: 44
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:13 pm
Location: Ottawa, the land where fun has died.

Postby abou105 » Sun Jan 22, 2006 6:57 pm

is this not just another example of how greedy the music indusrtry is ?
User avatar
abou105
 
Posts: 1468
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2003 4:00 pm
Location: a place in my head

Postby Wham » Sun Jan 22, 2006 8:49 pm

Well, I give credit where credit is due. At least the French have the guts to bring it to the forefront instead of hideing in the backgroud and dismissing it as acts of piracy (As is done in the U.S.) All freedom loving nations need to take note. This is a big problem that is not going to go away by itself and you are not going to make it go away by legislating laws that prohibit the freedom of your citizens and stomp on their rights.
Wham
 
Posts: 1193
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2004 1:28 am

Postby allanp22 » Sun Jan 22, 2006 11:21 pm

very true, there is a good reason if he is called Supermenteur.
This corruption affair aside, he is a decent president.
but still, he's corrupted.

I am skeptical about the global license, the law can not pass because the gouvernment is clearly against it.
At least the debate is happening in France.
And I don't understand why it isn't democratically happening elsewhere ?

obiwan wrote:Please do NOT comment any of the Mr.Chiraq ( corrupted french president, who will be himself charged on the very first day he steps down from presidency ! ) statements.
User avatar
allanp22
 
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 10:20 pm
Location: Canada

Postby allanp22 » Sun Jan 22, 2006 11:29 pm

Believe whatever cliché you want, at least French do not have the blood of thousands innocent Iraqis on their vote.
Re electing a lobby puppet, and having brave American soldiers dying overseas for a lie, I couldn't sleep at night.
Please moderators, feel free to kill the present comment, but also feel free to remove the other one quoted here.
thx


who_me wrote:
EMI Attacks France


i have some French military rifles for sale.... never fired only dropped once any1 interested?
:lol:
User avatar
allanp22
 
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 10:20 pm
Location: Canada

Postby who_me » Mon Jan 23, 2006 1:10 am

that comment was made injest towards France's neverending show of backbone :wink:
as im sure they have in the past, theyll drop the fight and beg for mercy (against the media cartels)
:lol:
who_me
 
Posts: 303
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:49 am

Postby darkened » Mon Jan 23, 2006 1:50 am

allanp22 wrote:Believe whatever cliché you want, at least French do not have the blood of thousands innocent Iraqis on their vote.
Re electing a lobby puppet, and having brave American soldiers dying overseas for a lie, I couldn't sleep at night.
Please moderators, feel free to kill the present comment, but also feel free to remove the other one quoted here.
thx


who_me wrote:
EMI Attacks France


i have some French military rifles for sale.... never fired only dropped once any1 interested?
:lol:


If we're going off topic like this, those who disagree with the Iraq war support genocide. Removing saddam was no different than hitler or stalin or what Clinton did with Somalia. The only difference between saddam and a terrorist is he was a hell of alot better at killing people.
User avatar
darkened
 
Posts: 439
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 6:35 pm

Postby IceCube » Mon Jan 23, 2006 2:45 am

First the German government invades France, now English record stores have invaded France. An interesting turn of events to say the least.
User avatar
IceCube
 
Posts: 17079
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 5:31 pm
Location: Igloo Country?

Postby lenslok » Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:33 am

First the German government invades France, now English record stores have invaded France. An interesting turn of events to say the least.


I'm in the UK. My company has just been taken over by a French one. Not sure who's invading who any more :D
"You know, I think I might come back as a bra." - Eddie, Bottom - 1991
Create Music & Movie maps... Liveplasma
User avatar
lenslok
 
Posts: 603
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2005 7:59 am
Location: Warmington-on-Sea

Postby allanp22 » Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:38 pm

I apologize, but I am fed up with clichés about France and some people just expose their ignorance by overstating them ...
so I had to respond by equally stupid clichés and narrowed ideas.

BTW, there is a great site about France and P2P to check out if you can read french or bear a translation with Altavista or Revero : http://www.ratiatum.com/

I still believe there will not be a global license being adopted in France.
I rather see something like a gradual punishment, starting with a warning by email from your ISP, then a first temporary shutdown of service with a post mail as warning and only then real law suits with some more degrees ...
I don't know what will happen to the tax of the blank medias (DVD, Ipod, HD)??


darkened wrote:If we're going off topic like this, those who disagree with the Iraq war support genocide. Removing saddam was no different than hitler or stalin or what Clinton did with Somalia. The only difference between saddam and a terrorist is he was a hell of alot better at killing people.
User avatar
allanp22
 
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 10:20 pm
Location: Canada

Postby Nick » Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:54 pm

If you are French, then I apologise for any offence caused to you and ask others to bear in mind the forum rules and terms of registration before making xenophobic remarks of this nature.
Nick
 
Posts: 3840
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 7:38 am

Postby in_hiding » Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:27 pm

1.
Just ignore the trolls

2.
big media's counter-attack against this bill is no surprise. €5 a month for a blanket license to download whatever you want (which may not be this bill's intention but probably will be how the average internaute would interpret it) would be a catastrophe for big media's current business model. They are not going to give up fighting this anytime soon.

3.
what Chirac says about this issue matters about as much as a fart in a hurricane; he's a 10-year lame duck, still blathering on about what France needs despite having already had a DECADE in power to do it. This issue will be decided by how effective big media is in motivating deputies to come out against it.
User avatar
in_hiding
 
Posts: 909
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 10:51 pm

Postby lenslok » Tue Jan 24, 2006 5:29 am

If it was my comments that caused you such terrible offense allanp22 then, of course, I apologise.
"You know, I think I might come back as a bra." - Eddie, Bottom - 1991
Create Music & Movie maps... Liveplasma
User avatar
lenslok
 
Posts: 603
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2005 7:59 am
Location: Warmington-on-Sea

hard time in France

Postby alban » Tue Jan 24, 2006 11:32 am

Ok Guys,

I am a French dude, the kind of activist that try to change things about P2P (through my book in English if anybody interested: "The Entertainment Industry is Cracked, Here is the Patch!")

What is currently happening in France with the "licence globale" is interesting. But guys, it seems that this will not be the final decision of the parliament (and I regret it...), because there will be a second round next month, and there is pressure on every side to change this French-specific rules (type of issues that are raised are "what will happen to "legal" music store")

In fact, even some pro-P2P are not totally convinced by this type of taxes ... so the government is making new proposals, mixing all the voices (DRM, but no so many, respect of innovation and "private copy", encourage legal music store, but without monopolies...)

So, I think the parliement will not go for the "licence globale" a second time (it is not my personnal judgment, but based on the "official" position of the main political parties)

But at least we get the right to be heard, and lots of people start listening to us. For example, a Music plateform called Jamendo, distributing creative commons MP3s through P2P protocol will get "air time" this week on the First channel in France called "TF1", during the "official news": it is the most important exposure a music plateform could get (Approximately 10 millions viewers, 1/6 of the French population)

Keep you updated...

A bientot mes amis
alban
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 11:06 am

Postby blastm » Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:22 pm

Obviously, there is a very good chance that the licence will never be voted for good..

but at least, now there's a hope that the law won't be voted as the government (or should we say the entertainment industry) intended to just 2 days before christmas..

not only it was made to increase penalties against those convinced of piracy, but it was also about over-protecting DRMs, and a serious threat against free softwares, fair-use of copyrighted materials and even the webradios and libraries :(
blastm
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2005 8:20 am
Location: Fr

Postby Nick » Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:59 pm

I'm in two minds on this. Part of me says that in taking premature action, perhaps they have ruined their chances of this getting through at any time.

The other part of me says that they have at least succeeded in raising the profile of this and getting the government to hear their voices.

I hope that it's the latter. Good luck
Nick
 
Posts: 3840
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 7:38 am

Postby Christopher » Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:49 pm

We need them to put a flat-tax on the internet, in all countries, and tell the entertainment industries "Okay, you are now getting money every month for even THEORETICAL sharing that might happen, enough money to cover any losses that you might encur as a result of filesharing. Now stop whining, take the money, and be happy with what you get!"

Even if they only put a 5 dollar tax, per year, on the internet in the United Staes, that amount to 5 * 40 million = 200 million dollars. That is MORE than enough to compensate copyright owners for p2p sharing.
I am not as stupid or naive as people would like to believe I am.
Christopher
 
Posts: 829
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 9:43 am

Postby WildHeart » Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:27 pm

Christopher wrote:We need them to put a flat-tax on the internet, in all countries, and tell the entertainment industries "Okay, you are now getting money every month for even THEORETICAL sharing that might happen, enough money to cover any losses that you might encur as a result of filesharing. Now stop whining, take the money, and be happy with what you get!"

I can imagine what an uproar such a tax would create. If I were one of the many millions who weren't file-sharing I would be mightily pissed and would certainly rebel in some way. That's no solution. And if the tax were proposed and then voted down, the media companies could still say "See what the evil of P2P is costing us." Best to forget about that "solution".

On the other hand, as an individual, I would be happy to put out five or ten dollars a year for a license to share legally, with no hassle from the media companies.
"Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for."
- Will Rogers -
User avatar
WildHeart
 
Posts: 6025
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 2:09 am
Location: In the Wild

Postby Wham » Thu Jan 26, 2006 4:14 pm

There are some very good ideas that are/have been being posted here at Slyck. There are lots of good people in Canada as well as France that are trying there utmost to ensure just and fair treatment of those countries citizens rights. I, for one, highly commend them.
It appears to me that the U.S. may well be loosing it's stature as the # 1 defender of freedoms if they continue to let the entertainment industry walk all over it's citizens by buying laws to get enacted such as the DMCA.
I commend France and hope that every thing works out for them.
Wham
 
Posts: 1193
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2004 1:28 am


Return to Slyck News

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

© 2001-2008 Slyck.com