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Bram Cohen and Dan Glickman to Make Major Announcement

Postby SlyckTom » Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:12 pm

File-sharing and the trade organizations that represent the music and movie industries are two entities not normally associated with cooperation. This notion has been changing recently, especially for the MPAA (Motion Picture Association of America.) Looking for a distribution model for licensed material, it has decided to change with the times. Case in point: BitTorrent.

Although BitTorrent is responsible for clogging ISP networks and transmitting a large segment of copyrighted material, the MPAA has eyed this tool as a useful device for its own needs. Looking to provide a legitimate avenue for interested netizens to download movies, the MPAA has recently been in negotiations with Bram Cohen, founder of BitTorrent.

Bram Cohen has managed to steer clear of litigation, unlike his P2P developer brethren. From the very beginning, Bram Cohen has been staunchly <a href=http://en.thinkexist.com/quotes/bram_cohen/ target=_blank>opposed</a> to piracy - at least publicly. He has repeatedly stated that BitTorrent is not a tool of piracy, and to use it as such is "stupid."

Bram has intelligently designed the BitTorrent protocol. Unlike conventional P2P networks, the BitTorrent community is not searchable. Independent indexing sites need to be established, otherwise known as trackers, which organize the content of the community (i.e. ThePirateBay.org.) Responding to reports of widespread piracy on BitTorrent, Bram stated to <a href=http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10099449/site/newsweek/ target=_blank>MSNBC</a>:

"If there's widespread copyright infringement, you really want to go after the ringleader. And we're not being the ringleader for that. The Web types that are doing piracy are the ringleaders for that."

With Bram clearly on the record as an opponent of piracy, those interested in distributing legitimate content have taken notice.

To meet this end, Bram Cohen has commercialized BitTorrent. Establishing his once rogue enterprise as a legitimate business has had profound effects. As BitTorrent has become more commercialized, two major events have occurred. First, the MPAA and Bram Cohen entered <a href=http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/12274166.htm target=_blank>negotiations</a> on the feasibility of distributing licensed material over BitTorrent. Second, DCM-Doll Capital invested $8.75 million into his newly commercialized business.

His negotiations with the MPAA have gone well. According to an interview with MSNBC, MPAA president Dan Glickman appeared welcoming to Bram Cohen's ideas.

"He seems really interested in what to do next. Everyone knows that things are changing, and I believe he's very interested in adapting. I was really surprised at how if you go to them nonconfrontationally they respond in kind."

In an MPAA press release today, the trade organization stated that Dan Glickman and Bram Cohen are set to hold a press conference tomorrow in Los Angeles at 2pm PST.

"Motion Picture Association of America, Inc. (MPAA) Chairman and CEO Dan Glickman and BitTorrent Founder and CEO Bram Cohen will hold a press conference on Tuesday, November 22th, 2005 at the American Film Institute."

Although the MPAA is not releasing information on the details of this press conference, it’s likely the two will announce the resolution of a deal. If the MPAA does announce a deal with BitTorrent, it will be an enormous step forward for the movie industry. What will mean for the rest of the file-sharing world? The details will be released tomorrow.
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Postby Fowler » Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:31 pm

Wow! Who would have thought. At least th MPAA is taking a better attitude toward the implementation than the RIAA. However, as far as the rest of p2p is concerned, I think very little will change. There will always be kazaa or whatever, that's here to stay. But I think the main change will be the way in which the MPAA, and now hoepfully the RIAA will conduct their business.

But we'll see. It's great to hear of some progress!
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Postby foxkill » Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:36 pm

It's Worrying!!You can not change the spots of a leopard!! :shock:
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Postby Nick » Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:38 pm

An interesting although not altogether unexepected development. Bram has voiced anti-piracy views long enough to be noticed, and the MPAA have probably looked at the cost of lawyers and the poor pr their position has generated, and felt it was more profitable for them to go with the flow.

One thing for sure, anything they plan will be revenue orientated. They will be the only people who profit from this.

Fortunately I don't have any shares in Blockbuster, although I suspect that anyone who does will be worried sick by this news.
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Postby Allied » Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:55 pm

I'm guessing this thread is going to get really long really fast. So I'm not going to type much.
Bram Cohen has commercialized BitTorrent

In a perfect world that'd be an oxymoron.
MPAA president Dan Glickman appeared welcoming to Bram Cohen's ideas

I think that's the best look into Bram's mind that we've ever had.
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Postby daz2712 » Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:02 pm

If this guy designed Bittorrent then does that not worry people?

He knows the software inside out so.........

I'd be inclined to take this as an worrying report.
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Postby xena » Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:04 pm

times to launch a bombing attack in press conference on Tuesday
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Postby Ne007 » Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:09 pm

Looking to provide a legitimate avenue for interested netizens to download movies


Legitmate meaning anything to do with giving them money of coarse.

No money given to them=illegitamate


What will mean for the rest of the file-sharing world? The details will be released tomorrow.


Why does this have ANYTHING to do with the rest of the filesharing world?

Who cares about the details lol!
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Postby zim » Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:10 pm

Since he created it as an efficient file transfer. and its just one step from http anyways.

and released the source to the public...



I dont see why anyone should worry.

This wont affect the current pirating bit torrent community one bit.

Or are people pissed hes getting rich off something he gave away for free? that would just be petty.

He doesnt owe anything to us. not even an explanation.
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Postby Ne007 » Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:12 pm

daz2712 wrote:If this guy designed Bittorrent then does that not worry people?

He knows the software inside out so.........

I'd be inclined to take this as an worrying report.


Jesus himself would have a hard time stopping filesharing. We will adapt and one person could not and will not stop us.

Bittorrent will live on without bram for sure.
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Postby Drake » Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:41 pm

Bram Cohen is becoming Shawn Fanning number 2. Prior to agreeing to make a deal with the MPAA, he would routinely refer to them as a cartel.

It looks like he sold out, just like Fanning. What a shame.
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bleagh

Postby Forbin01 » Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:46 pm

Ynow....the main things the record companies gave the artists was exposure and distribution. The internet gives both....artists dont need these greedy fucking record companies anymore.
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Postby bkman » Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:49 pm

As usual people with less brains than a can of dog food start whinging about how he betrayed them, or sold out, etc.

Newsflash: He didn't make Bittorrent for you to pirate movies with. Be glad he released this technology for anyone and for any use or you wouldn't be using it today, and know that he doesn't owe you anything.

I wish him luck in his future endeavours, and hope that this deal chages the nature of legal content distribution in a positive (cheaper and more convenient) way.
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Postby Drake » Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:00 pm

bkman wrote:As usual people with less brains than a can of dog food start whinging about how he betrayed them, or sold out, etc.


lol. Yes, the only people with brains are the ones who compare brains to a can of dog food.

bkman wrote:Newsflash: He didn't make Bittorrent for you to pirate movies with. Be glad he released this technology for anyone and for any use or you wouldn't be using it today, and know that he doesn't owe you anything.


Yes, it's great that he made his protocol open source but that's beside the point. If he had always been pro entertainment industry then I wouldn't call him a sellout. However, he quickly changed his tune once he realized how many bags of cash they would throw at him. Changing positions and forgetting about what you believe in, in exchange for money equates to selling out.

I had assumed a genius such as yourself would understand my point.
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Postby SlyckTom » Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:11 pm

Bram has played a smart game since the beginning. He made BitTorrent open souce, which is an extremely valid point. Its also a point that trumps any claim that he "sold out."

Who did he sell out to? I'm not quite getting that. He's selling a service, which is his to begin with, to the highest paying customer. That's the way capitalism works, and is one of the foundations of America.

Say what you want, Bram gets the last laugh.
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Postby bkman » Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:18 pm

Drake wrote:lol. Yes, the only people with brains are the ones who compare brains to a can of dog food.


Ehh, it was also meant a sly inference about the quality of dog food these days.

Drake wrote:Yes, it's great that he made his protocol open source but that's beside the point. If he had always been pro entertainment industry then I wouldn't call him a sellout. However, he quickly changed his tune once he realized how many bags of cash they would throw at him. Changing positions and forgetting about what you believe in, in exchange for money equates to selling out.


When was he ever against the entertainment industry?
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Postby Drake » Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:25 pm

SlyckTom wrote:He made BitTorrent open souce, which is an extremely valid point. Its also a point that trumps any claim that he "sold out."


It doesn't trump any claim that he sold out.

SlyckTom wrote:Who did he sell out to? I'm not quite getting that. He's selling a service, which is his to begin with, to the highest paying customer. That's the way capitalism works, and is one of the foundations of America.


He sold out to the organization he used to refer to as a cartel. If all he will be doing is setting up a DRM'd BitTorrent client which will allow them to sell (rent is probably a better word since these files will probably disappear after a certain amount of time) then he won't be hurting file sharing.

I suspect that he will work with their anti-piracy units (or companies they employ) to make it easier for them to go after file sharers. But maybe I'm wrong about that. However, he has already placed a flag on the latest version of BitTorrent which makes it easy to identify its traffic.

SlyckTom wrote:Say what you want, Bram gets the last laugh.


So did Fanning but that doesn't change the fact that he's a sell out.

bkman wrote:When was he ever against the entertainment industry?


He referred to them as cartels several times. Google it.
Last edited by Drake on Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby pkrisnin » Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:25 pm

I think they going to open a online movie retail website. Which I think is ok but afew factors would be in the way.

The price, knowing the MPAA it won't be cheap (look at what the RIAA tried to do with Itunes).
DRM - :( after Sony I'm not buying any legit stuff that requires me to install a special app. only to play it and that would include any MPAA BT client.
Will it be open to the world or just the US.
Will the latest movies be online or just the regular old crap.
If I pay for the movie why should I seed ?


I just hope Bram doesn't become a bounty hunter for the MPAA againts BT users.
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Postby Shoe » Mon Nov 21, 2005 11:10 pm

Well perhaps we should wait to see what he has to say before damning the bloke. :roll:

The way I look at it is this: BitTorrent is the most efficienct way of distributing data. Copyright owners want to sell their stuff online in the cheapest possible way. It is a logical step that they will want to develop some kind of bittorrent-esque method for selling content to people who want it. This will not replace free bittorrent which, as a protocol, cannot and will not be stopped.

I imagine they will (tomorrow or whenever) announce some Itunes-esque system allowing people to pay and download films. Customers who then seed the film to a 1.0 ratio then earn further download credit or a discount on their purchase of that film.

That way it allows movie companies to lessen stress on their servers and reward customers who help redistribute their films.
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Postby SlyckTom » Mon Nov 21, 2005 11:11 pm

He referred to them as cartels several times. Google it.


I do not quite understand that point either. Referring to something as a 'cartel' doesn't necessarily refer to a bad thing. The word cartel has been distorted over the years to be synonymous with 'drug cartel.' Now a lot of people automatically think its some kind of evil business venture.

It’s just a group of businesses that control a product, such as OPEC...which is a 'cartel.'
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Postby ImperialPanda » Mon Nov 21, 2005 11:12 pm

Drake, I got an idea for you, why don't you make music or movies 24/7 and then give it out for free? Then you won't be "selling out"!

Wow you're attacking someone for trying to make money from their own work. I salute you, pirate king.

Regarding this deal, it's not going to have any significant impact on piracy. They need to learn what Unix/open-source people have learned a long time ago: don't charge for the product, charge for the service. When reproduction is so simple and cheap, it's stupid to even try to enforce DRM. Even game developers are already starting to catch on to this.

How to incorporate service into movies and music? If you need to ask then you probably don't need to know.
Last edited by ImperialPanda on Mon Nov 21, 2005 11:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby AussieMatt » Mon Nov 21, 2005 11:13 pm

The MPAA owns Movielink but they need a content distribution platform that saves the bandwidth and storage costs.
Bandwidth cost has been one of the roadblocks in getting large video files required by Hollywood movies online by the studios .

Enter Bittorrent and the bandwidth and content distribution problem is solved .And this has been proven by the filesharing community time and time again .

Last Week NBC\Universal announced their deal with the pay p2p network Peer Impact with a video on demand deal like they give to the Satellite and and Cable companies .
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Postby mike334 » Mon Nov 21, 2005 11:17 pm

pkrisnin wrote:Will it be open to the world or just the US.
Will the latest movies be online or just the regular old crap.
If I pay for the movie why should I seed ?


These are very important questions.
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Postby AussieMatt » Mon Nov 21, 2005 11:29 pm

The Studios consider online movies still to be in the Pay Per view window

So the rules currently are -

Only available in the country the service has the rights to supply the content.(so yes probably only in the US for now)

New release Movies are only available 30-45 days after DVD release .

24 hour viewing window after you first play the movie

30 days to view the movie.

Hopefully this will change and the studios may try different business models in the near future.
Last edited by AussieMatt on Tue Nov 22, 2005 8:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby curzlgt » Mon Nov 21, 2005 11:30 pm

Some backgroud on Bram.....

Defcon Keeps Hackers Hooked

The BitTorrent Effect

BitTorrent file-sharing program floods the Web

A Technological Activist's Agenda

[This was written in late 1999, and is a parody of a cypherpunk's manifesto, which struck me as very dishonest manifesto claiming to solely be concerned about privacy. This screed is written in the exaggerated voice of a 'prototypical' cypherpunk, making much more direct declarations of his intent.]

I am a technological activist. I have a political agenda. I am in favor of basic human rights: to free speech, to use any information and technology, to purchase and use recreational drugs, to enjoy and purchase so-called 'vices', to be free of intruders, and to privacy.

I further my goals with technology. I build systems to disseminate information, commit digital piracy, synthesize drugs, maintain untrusted contacts, purchase anonymously, and secure machines and homes. I release my code and writings freely, and publish all of my ideas early to make them unpatentable.

Technology is not a panacea. I refuse to work on technology to track users, analyze usage patterns, watermark information, censor, detect drug use, or eavesdrop. I am not naive enough to think any of those technologies could enable a 'compromise'.

Despite my emphasis on technology, I do not view laws as inherently evil. My goals are political ones, even if my techniques are not. The only way to fundamentally succeed is by changing existing laws. If I rejected all help from the political arena I would inevitably fail.

-Bram Cohen


Personally, I never bought that this was a parody :twisted: I think he is on "our side", and who better to deal with the MPAA?
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