Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

[Naujoks]

also the longer this goes on the harder it will be to get a conviction.
all they have is an ip address which is crap evidence to say the least as they can be cloned or if wireless they can be hacked into.
is that all they have?? an ip address??

Currently...for most people, yes.

Which...unless they have more proof or evidence...it won't go anywhere.

I don't think they had more than that in that womans case!

[hipraptor]

'Gore said that it was possible that the court rulings will reduce the amount of illegal file-sharing that takes place.'

Which no doubt will put Logistep and ambulance chasers out of business on this matter.

[eldard]

doesn't add too much more, but they do seem to clarify it was a new case

http://www.out-law.com/page-9360

I emailed the guy from outlaw and he said that he just assumed it was a new case because it was a new press release, so don't be so sure just yet.

[boingboing]

Thanks. Too much duff or conflicting info out there at the moment.

Anyone work in Central London who can call in and do some digging at the patents court?

[dream pinball 3d lol]

well im not suprised,dl got a plug on bbc news,big deal,if they were as good as they claim then load,s of solicitor,s would be at it theve just raised the tempo with there plug on the new,s,so now they send more letter,s out telling everone how good they are at winning these case,s and raise the fee lol,no fly,s on them,but of course lose one case then there laughing stock,seem,s odd that they had the fantastic four now this one with extended cost,s more than probable for one of the four,oh yes is logistep regulated in the uk ,oh silly me they must be pmsl,

[MrFredPFL]

i will consider paying to have someone remove the comma from lol's keyboard. seriously.

i mean that in the nicest possible way

[dream pinball 3d lol]

sorry fred lol accepted pisses me off though when so many people can get these letters go through all the stress and then give in,theres a good possibility that one of those dissclamer forms could be the result of this woman? anyhow i wont say to much as i know this forum is monitored? one point though they started this as a criminal case in terms of a warrant to the isps and then revert to civil bit like suing someone for assault without having a conviction first? anyhow just for u fred plenty of ?????????? this time lol

[unhappy]

Would I be right in saying that all these press releases come from DL or TopWare themselves and none of them are reported from the courts ?
They all seems to have quotes and statements from DL. Who's to say how accurate these are. Especially true when the press releases contradict each other in small details - such as preparation of court proceedings - one press release says they have started court proceedings, another says they will be starting court proceedings.

[boingboing]

On a further note regarding the patents court, did anyone else note it was all company vs company. There were no other cases against individuals. Talk about using a sledghammer to crack a nut. Is it possible the reason behind the high costs awarded is down to the expense of using this court instead of a normal county court?
I think we need to do some digging to see what went on that day at this court, either over the phone, or in person at the courts if anyone can get there.

[multivariable]

i will consider paying to have someone remove the comma from lol's keyboard. seriously.

i mean that in the nicest possible way

Can you afford to pay for a full-stop, too?

[Meek]

Hi all,

This forum has been very very useful. Without this forum mym mum would have paid DL's demand weeks ago.
They claim that she downloaded 'The Witcher' (which I had not heard of before she had received the letter). She had not downloaded the game and neither had I, yet when faced with legal action you get scared into paying.
Thankfully she didn't pay and I have spent hours searching the net for information. There seem to be an aweful lot of people out there in the same boat.
My mum received ther first letter while she was away on holiday (about 3 weeks ago) and didn't get it till 7 days later (when she returned). She emailed them and faxed them a few days later, asking for more time to look into it and for more evidence. They replied pretty promptly to the fax and aknowledged the email, but never replied to the email (they proabably don't have their letter templates in an email format). The second letter however completely ignored her request for more time and stated that they did not need to provide any more evidence for the post legal procedure (or something like that).
We have since replied to the second letter refuting their evidence and stating that she would not pay. I am also seeking legal advice about this and have contacted trading standards, but am awaiting a reply.

I'll let you know how it all goes.

Once again....thank you all very much for this thread and thank you Slyck for providing the site to do this.

Meek - out ;o)

[boingboing]

I have spoken to someone at the patents court today.
He is just standing in for someone on holiday, so wasn't fully aware of the case.

But, he did tell me that the hearing on the 22nd was for damages. There were earlier hearings, but he clammed up a bit at this point. He also confirmed the defendent wasn't in court on the 22nd, but I dont know if that means they weren't present on earlier hearings or not.

I'm guessing it should all be in the public domain, so we may get more info when the real person is back from hols next week. He was looking at a file - so the info is all there - it just depends if anyone is allowed to see it.

So it looks like one of the original 'default 4'

If damages were awarded back on 22nd July, that begs the question why the detail have only just been released, and by whom. Presumably DL, and more than likely to coincide with a new batch of letters perhaps??

[CalumN2008]

this is happening to my brother at the moment, has anyone actually tried writing back saying "i still stand by my claim of innocence in all this but im willing to pay £100-200 quid etc as this is all i can afford, either that or take me to court ?"

[bubbster]

Payment will be taken as an admission of guilt regardless of how you word it. If you didn't do it, do NOT pay them.

[eldard]

I have spoken to someone at the patents court today.
He is just standing in for someone on holiday, so wasn't fully aware of the case.

But, he did tell me that the hearing on the 22nd was for damages. There were earlier hearings, but he clammed up a bit at this point. He also confirmed the defendent wasn't in court on the 22nd, but I dont know if that means they weren't present on earlier hearings or not.

I'm guessing it should all be in the public domain, so we may get more info when the real person is back from hols next week. He was looking at a file - so the info is all there - it just depends if anyone is allowed to see it.

So it looks like one of the original 'default 4'

Looks like the reporter from the Metro did some fact checking then, unlike the BBC which is a bit surprising.

this is happening to my brother at the moment, has anyone actually tried writing back saying "i still stand by my claim of innocence in all this but im willing to pay £100-200 quid etc as this is all i can afford, either that or take me to court ?"

If you look back earlier in this thread there should be a little discussion about making an offer without prejudice or something along those lines, but I'd be surprised if DL agreed to it.

[Alisha]

Has anyone tried calling their hotline number: 0207 468 2600 ??

( Davenport Lyons said it has set up a hotline for people who believe they have been wrongly accused, on 0207 468 2600. It wrote: "Any person who has received a letter and who believes he or she has been sent it in error, e.g. if he or she cannot locate the file on their computer, should contact Davenport Lyons explaining the position and they will investigate it further.")

I don't think DL will take any offers of less then what they are asking for as they believe they hav a solid case and have got nothing to lose, unlike us! We all know we can't afford to pay what their settlement figure is let alone what the outcome of a court case may be. So what are we supposed to do?

[hipraptor]

DL wants people to pay as nobody as far as they are concerned is anything but guilty as charged and this is because it is a real money spinner, in that people can only defend themselves, if DL take them to court, rather then go on the offensive before hand, due to the fact that our legal systen does not give legal aid to those who cannot afford to remove false information from legal records, such as what DL is accessing and holding on people who have done nothing wrong.

So the only bit of esteem one can have against such an onslaught of falsehood is to stand up for oneself by refusing to pay and hope DL gives one the oppurtunity to defend oneself if they take one to court.

To pay them is to roll over and die and is morally wrong.

Just a thought, if this where false criminal accusatiuons by the Police say, one would have more redress, it is a shame one cannot have redress in civil cases, unless one has plenty of dosh.

I am so p***ed off that DL continue having these false accuastions ledged against people and nothing can be done.

[hipraptor]

Has anyone tried calling their hotline number: 0207 468 2600 ??

( Davenport Lyons said it has set up a hotline for people who believe they have been wrongly accused, on 0207 468 2600. It wrote: "Any person who has received a letter and who believes he or she has been sent it in error, e.g. if he or she cannot locate the file on their computer, should contact Davenport Lyons explaining the position and they will investigate it further.")

I don't think DL will take any offers of less then what they are asking for as they believe they hav a solid case and have got nothing to lose, unlike us! We all know we can't afford to pay what their settlement figure is let alone what the outcome of a court case may be. So what are we supposed to do?

Just because DL get the courts to find in there favour, i.e £16,000, does not mean they will actually get it, for instance how does an unemployed mother of 2, pay £16,000.

A £1 a month token payment which if my maths is correct is over 1300 years, mind I supposed they could make her bankrupt or maybe get the law changed so taht one can be jailed for non payment of debts, which also means of course jer kids would be taken into care - not gonna happen of course, so what have DL accomplished.

It will be intresting to see how this pans out and it would be even better if she or a friend of hers could post here.

So what do you do, wait and see or pay up and sell your soul to DL.

[bubbster]

Has anyone tried calling their hotline number: 0207 468 2600 ??

( Davenport Lyons said it has set up a hotline for people who believe they have been wrongly accused, on 0207 468 2600. It wrote: "Any person who has received a letter and who believes he or she has been sent it in error, e.g. if he or she cannot locate the file on their computer, should contact Davenport Lyons explaining the position and they will investigate it further.")

I don't think DL will take any offers of less then what they are asking for as they believe they hav a solid case and have got nothing to lose, unlike us! We all know we can't afford to pay what their settlement figure is let alone what the outcome of a court case may be. So what are we supposed to do?

They actually have quite a lot to lose if they take someone to court who is prepared to fight and has a decent defence set up. The reason being every single case they have seems to rely on exactly the same evidence, which is far from solid - an ip address collected by a company that has been asked to cease trading in it's own country. If one case collapses or doesn't go their way, it opens the door for everyone else - just look what happened to them in Germany. As far as we can tell, they haven't even had to present their evidence to a court in the UK yet.

I firmly believe - at least in the short term, they will continue to pursue the people who they class as "soft targets".

I would also like to know if anyone on the Virgin cable broadband network has had one of these letters as they are in a unique situation with the on-going problems of cloned modems and stolen ip addresses, once again showing an ip address is a very poor piece of evidence to accuse someone with.

[bushpig]

im on virgin media and use a wireless conection, and this situation is really pissing me off

[Alisha]

Has anyone tried calling their hotline number: 0207 468 2600 ??

( Davenport Lyons said it has set up a hotline for people who believe they have been wrongly accused, on 0207 468 2600. It wrote: "Any person who has received a letter and who believes he or she has been sent it in error, e.g. if he or she cannot locate the file on their computer, should contact Davenport Lyons explaining the position and they will investigate it further.")

I don't think DL will take any offers of less then what they are asking for as they believe they hav a solid case and have got nothing to lose, unlike us! We all know we can't afford to pay what their settlement figure is let alone what the outcome of a court case may be. So what are we supposed to do?

They actually have quite a lot to lose if they take someone to court who is prepared to fight and has a decent defence set up. The reason being every single case they have seems to rely on exactly the same evidence, which is far from solid - an ip address collected by a company that has been asked to cease trading in it's own country. If one case collapses or doesn't go their way, it opens the door for everyone else - just look what happened to them in Germany. As far as we can tell, they haven't even had to present their evidence to a court in the UK yet.

I'm sorry to give you the bad news but they have presented their evidence to a UK court just look at http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7568642.stm or http://www.davenportlyons.com/html/lega ... aring.html
They had a case and won. And yes the lady accused did turn up in court. Its really not looking very good for any of us and with all these people posting on these forums no one has been able to find a way to cancel out this accusation or get back at DL for their accusations and constant harrasment.

[boingboing]

Where does it say in the DL article that she turned up? Dont believe the BBC article, because reporters are just making assumptions. I read it that she is one of the original 4.

The court told me she never turned up for the hearing on the 22nd - I dont yet know about the earlier hearings. We really need someone to go down in person and find out.

[bubbster]

That BBC article is the very one we are currently wondering about as other sources are leading us to believe it was a default judgement rather than an actual hearing.

Until we know for sure, it's difficult knowing how to proceed.

Obviously if it was a proper hearing, it changes the balance somewhat but don't forget, the onus to prove guilt in a civil court is nowhere near as strict as that in a criminal court. If she had a poor defence (or none at all), obviously the courts would rule against her unless the circumstances were extraordinary.

[Alisha]

That BBC article is the very one we are currently wondering about as other sources are leading us to believe it was a default judgement rather than an actual hearing.

Until we know for sure, it's difficult knowing how to proceed.

Obviously if it was a proper hearing, it changes the balance somewhat but don't forget, the onus to prove guilt in a civil court is nowhere near as strict as that in a criminal court. If she had a poor defence (or none at all), obviously the courts would rule against her unless the circumstances were extraordinary.

I know it is a civil court which means that its based on probability so if the court thinks that you have downloaded this game at least 51% then thats it your guity.

[SteveyG]

A little amusement on the subject of court:

http://rinkworks.com/said/courtroom.shtml