Slyck.com
 
Slyck Chatbox - And More

Need Upload Banwidth? Get a Seedbox

Discuss Slyck's latest news
Forum rules
PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING: Slyck Forum Rules

Need Upload Banwidth? Get a Seedbox

Postby LANjackal » Fri Aug 24, 2007 11:23 am

Need extreme upload bandwidth for your torrents? An always-on machine that meets your various tracker ratio obligations while leaving your primary PC free for other tasks? Are you a victim of traffic shaping? Are you a content producer who wants to keep distribution bandwidth costs to a minimum? Or are you a hardcore filesharer stuck on on a P2P unfriendly network, maybe at college?

If you answered "yes" to any of the above, a seedbox may be the solution for you.

The information presented in this article was gleaned mostly from postings regarding the subject both here at Slyck and at the forums of private BitTorrent sites. The author has no personal experience with seedbox use - the aim of the piece is only to shed light on the matter, not to serve as an official authoritative guide.

Paradoxically, there isn't really any specific type of machine called a seedbox, any more than "email PCs" exist, because just about any machine can do either task. To be a seedbox, a machine must simply:

1 - Seed a torrent from its location
2 - Be on a fast (100mbps+) connection
3 - Administrated primarily via remote access

From these criteria, technically nearly any machine can be a seedbox, from a cheap laptop to a powerful HTPC. In practice, however, because seedbox users get the service from a remote provider, they will never actually physically see their machines, which are likely to be server-class hardware.

While it is possible to get a shared server, dedicated servers are recommended. Seedboxes usually run either Linux or Windows, with the latter being the more expensive option. Linux seedboxes are typically accessed via SSH, but some hosting companies will install VNC for users for a fee. Windows seedboxes are typically accessed via the Remote Desktop feature built into the OS.

Unfortunately, some private BitTorrent sites use a combination of IP address and account matching, passkeys and the like to ensure that both the BT peer and the browser are at the same location (or are the same person). This is to prevent cheating and infiltration. These checks may be circumvented on Linux seedboxes that run rTorrent though, by doing the following:

In the rtorrent.rc file, set the option:

"bind = a.b.c.d"

This will bind outgoing and incoming connections to that IP address. Then set the option:

"ip = a.b.c.d"

This will set the IP address that is reported to the tracker.

Once access is set up, the seedbox behaves like any other remotely administered PC. With its massive bandwidth, a seedbox can seed (relatively, compared to a home PC) many torrents to many sites simultaneously, thus assisting greatly in ratio maintenance and file distribution.

The steps for uploading a torrent using a seedbox are:*

1 - Create torrent on PC
2 - Upload files to seedbox
3 - Upload torrent to site
4 - Download torrent to seedbox
5 - Start seeding

Commonly suggested seedbox hosts are:

LeaseWeb
Fasthosts
Shinjiru (their main selling point is that they're offshore)
Vectoral Servers
JMH Services
DreamHost
Layered Technologies
SoftLayer

While most forum experts seem generally to recommend against using seedboxes for public torrents (when asked about it, at least), we can't think of any reason a seedbox would be a bigger target than a PC on a regular connection, unless enforcement authorities knew beforehand about the seedbox, or BitTorrent is against the seedbox provider's policies. In fact, it is arguable that since the odds of detection increase with the time a peer remains connected to a swarm, it may actually be more secure to seed public torrents using boxes. This would allow the original uploader to dump the file to peers and disappear very quickly. Perhaps this is already being done, but Slyck has no concrete evidence thereof at this time.

As mentioned at the outset, seedboxes are likely to become even more relevant as Comcast, the largest US broadband provider, allegedly obstructs BitTorrent seeding for some users on its network and even more so if other providers follow suit.

But why stop at BitTorrent? It would seem that a seedbox is good for just about anything that generally demands upload bandwidth, e.g. IRC sharing and newsgroup binary posting.

In any case, the seedbox appears to be an easy solution for hardcore uploaders.



*UPDATE: Strictly speaking, there are other ways to go about this, including FXP, Usenet, etc.
Follow me around the internet!
[Windows 7 Pro x64 (Primary OS)
User avatar
LANjackal
 
Posts: 5895
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 1:58 pm
Location: Various networks. In the physical world I'm an adaptive AI that pretends to be human

Re: Need Upload Banwidth? Get a Seedbox

Postby Maestro120 » Fri Aug 24, 2007 11:43 am

Question.

If I use a seed box which is clearly a type of proxy, how would the **AA's trace my IP back to me since in the peer swarm they would only see the IP address of the box seeding ?

Other than that, those using seed boxes tend to be seeders who have direct access to zero day releases via ftp top sites etc. and wish to spread the goodies as quickly as possible.
Maestro120
 
Posts: 659
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 1:39 pm

Re: Need Upload Banwidth? Get a Seedbox

Postby ntscuser » Fri Aug 24, 2007 12:03 pm

Maestro120 wrote:...those using seed boxes tend to be seeders who have direct access to zero day releases via ftp top sites etc. and wish to spread the goodies as quickly as possible.
Are they the kind of people who would pay for a seed box?
User avatar
ntscuser
 
Posts: 1968
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 9:15 am
Location: United Kingdom but originally from Holland

Re: Need Upload Banwidth? Get a Seedbox

Postby veryMANYlakes » Fri Aug 24, 2007 12:13 pm

ntscuser wrote:
Maestro120 wrote:...those using seed boxes tend to be seeders who have direct access to zero day releases via ftp top sites etc. and wish to spread the goodies as quickly as possible.
Are they the kind of people who would pay for a seed box?


the money donated to your favorite private torrent-tracker would possibly pay for it..
veryMANYlakes
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 12:11 pm

Re: Need Upload Banwidth? Get a Seedbox

Postby GraphiX » Fri Aug 24, 2007 1:39 pm

how does this escape copyright i mean lets look at this.

They are issuing a server/service that basically does nothing but upload files which are mostly copyright.
so how are the company hosting these services getting away with doing this?

for instance.

i download a copyrighted file name without permision and seed it back i get caught i get busted for it.
and get in legal trouble for re-distrobuting but im not doing it for commercial gain or profiting just filesharing.
anyway they dont care about this and i could get fined or jailed depending on what file it is.

but a company can offer a business of a seed box for the purpose to let users upload content regardless of copyright
this is for profit and personal gain but yet there doing the exact same as a normal person seeding and yet this is legal?

i dont get it
GraphiX
 
Posts: 922
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 7:19 pm

Re: Need Upload Banwidth? Get a Seedbox

Postby Golgo1 » Fri Aug 24, 2007 1:51 pm

I dont think the article was really addressing the legality of seeding.
It's just showing an option available to get around traffic filtering.

If your home ISP filters traffic, you pay up for one of these servers which is presumably on a non-filtering ISP, an you seed away.
Legally, I suppose they could find that box in the exact same way they would find a personal computer. Then do the usual blackmail to obtain the owner/renter of the box
Am I the ONLY one who remembers that video KILLED the radio star?
There are two kinds of people in this world: people who can extrapolate from incomplete data
User avatar
Golgo1
 
Posts: 1430
Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 3:50 pm
Location: I drink I've been thinking

Re: Need Upload Banwidth? Get a Seedbox

Postby LANjackal » Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:01 pm

GraphiX wrote:how does this escape copyright
Ummm... you do realize the article said nothing about that, right? Nor about legality. There's no mention of either of those or related terms in the original post ...

You're hilarious. Wanna talk about elephants next? :lol:
Follow me around the internet!
[Windows 7 Pro x64 (Primary OS)
User avatar
LANjackal
 
Posts: 5895
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 1:58 pm
Location: Various networks. In the physical world I'm an adaptive AI that pretends to be human

Re: Need Upload Banwidth? Get a Seedbox

Postby GraphiX » Fri Aug 24, 2007 4:33 pm

it doesnt matter what it says about it im just pointing out the obvious that others might of been thinking.
christ lately what is it with people this will be my last post, i'll just read and keep it that way.
this used to be a friendly place where we could talk and discuss an article or our views on other items
that after all is to do with filesharing and the legality of this is no different than a home user on a pc.
anyway i've had enough now restricted what we can do on pc's and now on freedom of speech shoot me now.

cya all thanks alot jackal
GraphiX
 
Posts: 922
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 7:19 pm

Re: Need Upload Banwidth? Get a Seedbox

Postby LANjackal » Fri Aug 24, 2007 5:04 pm

GraphiX wrote:it doesnt matter what it says
Funny, GraphiX... that seems to be the approach you take to everything. In other words, "I don't care what the facts are or what's there, I'm just gonna mouth off."

Constructive posts are always appreciated. No one's preventing you from saying anything here. But don't expect to be able to just post anything without any basis whatsoever and not have other users take your statements apart.

The service is legal because:

1 - BitTorrent in itself is NOT illegal

2 - The service being sold is administration of a server on a high speed connection. Period. You can use the server for anything, not just BitTorrent. The purpose to which it is put is dependent on the person who is leasing it, not the company. Similarly, car rental companies are not responsible if their cars are used in illegal activity, the renter is. That's the point I was making at the end

The legality involved is essentially the same as that for a PC on a standard internet connection - only the location and speed differ and, depending on the host, takedown/infringement discovery and notification may be different.
Follow me around the internet!
[Windows 7 Pro x64 (Primary OS)
User avatar
LANjackal
 
Posts: 5895
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 1:58 pm
Location: Various networks. In the physical world I'm an adaptive AI that pretends to be human

Re: Need Upload Banwidth? Get a Seedbox

Postby ntscuser » Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:16 pm

I'm missing something here? Sure, the newly leased server is ultra fast, but doesn't the original file have to be uploaded from your own machine in the first place and isn't the time it takes to do that still restricted by by the speed of your own connection? :roll:
User avatar
ntscuser
 
Posts: 1968
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 9:15 am
Location: United Kingdom but originally from Holland

Re: Need Upload Banwidth? Get a Seedbox

Postby LANjackal » Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:22 pm

ntscuser wrote:I'm missing something here? Sure, the newly leased server is ultra fast, but doesn't the original file have to be uploaded from your own machine in the first place and isn't the time it takes to do that still restricted by by the speed of your own connection? :roll:
That's what I couldn't understand at first too. That's where the "seed" part of the name comes from. The higher your upload speed, the more you'll upload. On private sites, that results in your share ratio soaring. In other words, this is for seeding beyond the 1.0 point.
Follow me around the internet!
[Windows 7 Pro x64 (Primary OS)
User avatar
LANjackal
 
Posts: 5895
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 1:58 pm
Location: Various networks. In the physical world I'm an adaptive AI that pretends to be human

Re: Need Upload Banwidth? Get a Seedbox

Postby who_me » Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:26 pm

LANjackal wrote:
ntscuser wrote:I'm missing something here? Sure, the newly leased server is ultra fast, but doesn't the original file have to be uploaded from your own machine in the first place and isn't the time it takes to do that still restricted by by the speed of your own connection? :roll:
That's what I couldn't understand at first too. That's where the "seed" part of the name comes from. The higher your upload speed, the more you'll upload. On private sites, that results in your share ratio soaring. In other words, this is for seeding beyond the 1.0 point.



lmao
guys.. im gonna clue u in.. obviously a seedbox is not for noobs...
and id suggest if u dont have the proper connection (and i aint talkin about ur inet speed connection) dont even waste your time getting a box.
ADVERTISING SPACE
FOR SALE.
who_me
 
Posts: 303
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:49 am

Re: Need Upload Banwidth? Get a Seedbox

Postby ShawnSpree » Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:57 pm

You dont need a seedbox. Just upload it on usenet and everyone thats a member will get the file fast.. And then people in private bt realm would download from usenet and then upload it to the private site.. So you would start off with 5-15 seeders who got the file elsewhere and help seed to those without usenet. Its that simple. Seedboxes are only good on private sites as you dont want to allow HUNDREDS of thousands of people accessing your bandwidth that your paying for. At least with a seedbox on a private site you only have to seed to 20 or more in which all the other peers help push the file out and continue seeding so you can move on to bigger and better things. Otherwise a seedbox on public site will get noticed and the amount of seeders never out weight the amount of leechers.
ShawnSpree
 
Posts: 1293
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 8:20 pm

Re: Need Upload Banwidth? Get a Seedbox

Postby scubascythan » Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:20 pm

Or just spend only 15 bucks a month on newsgroups which will let you dl at full speed, and never worry about upload ratios...

Or, spend around 20 to 50 bucks, or even more, a month on a seedbox, and still maintain those silly ratios...
scubascythan
 
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:05 pm

Re: Need Upload Banwidth? Get a Seedbox

Postby lacadaemon » Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:57 pm

seed boxes only seed until there are 3 or 4 seeds then they pause the torrent, therefore seed boxes dont need a lot of bandwith. this is bittorrent guys! who need bandwidth? not bittorrent!

seed boxes are NOT used by many private sites because that is piracy which is a criminal offense. most seeders are private machines run by fanatical filesharers

there is never an upload or download of anything between you at home and your seed box. using nxserver your seed box is a 100% selfcontained remote computer

the legal situation is different with a seed box because you are not dealing with an ISP, you are dealing with a Host and they are not as stupid as ISP. Hosts (same for ISP) are obliged in law only to pass on any notice served on them to the client. the client can ignore anything and everything out of the USA. the rest of the world is laughing at how the USA thinks its laws extend into our countries. the USA education system must be shite. DMCA dah!

btw i dont use seed boxes. as an operator that would be a gross violation of the law. in fact i dont use bittorrent at all
User avatar
lacadaemon
 
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 11:30 am
Location: in the library, reading

Re: Need Upload Banwidth? Get a Seedbox

Postby Maestro120 » Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:06 pm

lacadaemon wrote:there is never an upload or download of anything between you at home and your seed box. using nxserver your seed box is a 100% selfcontained remote computer


Well this does answer the question of why waste time uploading to a seed box only to have to seed again. If the box acts like a remote pc you can download directly to it from Usenet or wherever. Then seed at 100 Mbs.
Wow... my ratio would be though the roof if I were to consider going that route. :shock:
Maestro120
 
Posts: 659
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 1:39 pm

Re: Need Upload Banwidth? Get a Seedbox

Postby LANjackal » Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:18 pm

lacadaemon wrote:there is never an upload or download of anything between you at home and your seed box. using nxserver your seed box is a 100% selfcontained remote computer
Could you explain this? If that's the case, how do you get files from your PC to the box for seeding?

lacadaemon wrote:the legal situation is different with a seed box because you are not dealing with an ISP, you are dealing with a Host and they are not as stupid as ISP. Hosts (same for ISP) are obliged in law only to pass on any notice served on them to the client. the client can ignore anything and everything out of the USA. the rest of the world is laughing at how the USA thinks its laws extend into our countries. the USA education system must be shite. DMCA dah!
Thanks for the info.

As far as official news coverage of this subject goes, we're in uncharted waters here, so info is scarce and crappy. The article I wrote is the first I've ever seen about seedboxes, so you'll have to excuse me if everything's not spot on. I tried my best, though :).
Follow me around the internet!
[Windows 7 Pro x64 (Primary OS)
User avatar
LANjackal
 
Posts: 5895
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 1:58 pm
Location: Various networks. In the physical world I'm an adaptive AI that pretends to be human

Re: Need Upload Banwidth? Get a Seedbox

Postby who_me » Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:30 pm

lacadaemon wrote:the legal situation is different with a seed box because you are not dealing with an ISP, you are dealing with a Host and they are not as stupid as ISP. Hosts (same for ISP) are obliged in law only to pass on any notice served on them to the client. the client can ignore anything and everything out of the USA. the rest of the world is laughing at how the USA thinks its laws extend into our countries. the USA education system must be shite. DMCA dah!

BULLSHITE

ive seen many eu and other boxes get pulled.. dont post bs pls (especially when ur pastin ur advertisements in this thread like its a hosting advertisement site). theirs basically nowhere thats TRULY safe.
ADVERTISING SPACE
FOR SALE.
who_me
 
Posts: 303
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:49 am

Re: Need Upload Banwidth? Get a Seedbox

Postby who_me » Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:31 pm

LANjackal wrote:
As far as official news coverage of this subject goes, we're in uncharted waters here, so info is scarce and crappy.


as it should be.. by putting this info out their ur doing nothing but wipin the **AA's ass for them ;\
ADVERTISING SPACE
FOR SALE.
who_me
 
Posts: 303
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:49 am

Re: Need Upload Banwidth? Get a Seedbox

Postby dakiller » Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:40 pm

Very interseting article LANjackal Thx...

I can see depending on what your goals were as far as spreading files (i.e. lone user v.s. a release group) this method could definately have it's uses.

I would agree with ShawnSpree,scubascythan though,for personal file downloading,or even limited spreading,Usenet would be the better, less hassle way to go.
man,i'm sick of following my dreams
i'm just gonna ask where they're headed and hook up with em later

-MITCH
User avatar
dakiller
 
Posts: 3599
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 6:08 pm
Location: Your Nightmares or Your Dreams..your choice

Re: Need Upload Banwidth? Get a Seedbox

Postby n00b » Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:47 pm

LANjackal wrote:Could you explain this? If that's the case, how do you get files from your PC to the box for seeding?


It's simple you have your seedbox with depending on OS utorrent or rtorrent installed.. then one of two things:

You have scene access so you FXP directly from one of your sites onto your seedbox then start to seed the files on a private torrent site.. this is how files are on torrent sites so close after pre these days.

or

You just leech the files with the seedbox from the private torrent site and continue seeding using the servers bandwidth.

You NEVER upload from your PC to the seedbox... files get there either FXP'd from a race site or leeched from a good fast privite torrent site if you have no scene access.

The only thing you would do with your personal line would be to leech the files for yourself from your seedbox.

Dunno why people are bringing usenet into it quality torrent sites get files well before usenet :roll:
User avatar
n00b
 
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 3:08 pm

Re: Need Upload Banwidth? Get a Seedbox

Postby LANjackal » Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:55 pm

who_me wrote:as it should be.. by putting this info out their ur doing nothing but wipin the **AA's ass for them ;\
Actually, since P2P was thrust into the spotlight (mostly since the **AAs started suing users), it has paradoxically exploded. This is an actual fact.

Besides, seedboxes are no easier to track than regular PCs, except for their static IPs. But this shortcoming is mitigated by the speed at which they can dump files and disappear if needed.
Follow me around the internet!
[Windows 7 Pro x64 (Primary OS)
User avatar
LANjackal
 
Posts: 5895
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 1:58 pm
Location: Various networks. In the physical world I'm an adaptive AI that pretends to be human

Re: Need Upload Banwidth? Get a Seedbox

Postby scubascythan » Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:01 pm

n00b wrote:Dunno why people are bringing usenet into it quality torrent sites get files well before usenet :roll:


How would you know? What usenet provider do you use, and what nzb indexing site do you use? Exactly.

And by quality torrent site, could you name a few? Cause I know for a fact some tv releases are faster on usenet than torrent sites, and even if torrent sites are faster by 10 min, at least my download doesn't depend on the number of seeds/peers and their upload capabilities, nor do I have to worry about leaving my upload long enough to maintain a good enough ratio. Of course, you just could be one of the lucky SOB's who have good internet connection with nearly-symmetrical high speed broadband, but like 95%+ of broadband users, it's asymmetrical.
scubascythan
 
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:05 pm

Re: Need Upload Banwidth? Get a Seedbox

Postby OSS » Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:08 pm

lacadaemon wrote:seed boxes only seed until there are 3 or 4 seeds then they pause the torrent, therefore seed boxes dont need a lot of bandwith. this is bittorrent guys! who need bandwidth? not bittorrent!


Wrong. Many people let their boxes seed for as long as possible, routinely getting 20+ ratio.

lacadaemon wrote:seed boxes are NOT used by many private sites because that is piracy which is a criminal offense. most seeders are private machines run by fanatical filesharers


Wrong again. Majority of private sites make use of seed boxes, both uploaders and users.


lacadaemon wrote:there is never an upload or download of anything between you at home and your seed box. using nxserver your seed box is a 100% selfcontained remote computer


Wrong. A lot of people torrent on the seed box and then download from the seed box to their home computer.


lacadaemon wrote:in fact i dont use bittorrent at all


LOL. Probably why you are speaking so much nonsense :)

In terms of the hosts discussed:

∙ LeaseWeb (decent)
∙ Fasthosts (small pipes overpriced)
∙ Shinjiru (paying a premium for offshore, not required)
∙ Vectoral Servers (decent)
∙ JMH Services (little known)
∙ DreamHost (very expensive, not suitable)
∙ Layered Technologies (nice value)
∙ SoftLayer (expensive)
OSS
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:58 am

Re: Need Upload Banwidth? Get a Seedbox

Postby who_me » Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:10 pm

LANjackal wrote:
who_me wrote:as it should be.. by putting this info out their ur doing nothing but wipin the **AA's ass for them ;\
Actually, since P2P was thrust into the spotlight (mostly since the **AAs started suing users), it has paradoxically exploded. This is an actual fact.

Besides, seedboxes are no easier to track than regular PCs, except for their static IPs. But this shortcoming is mitigated by the speed at which they can dump files and disappear if needed.



im sry.. but u talk like u know what ur talking about while 3 posts back u didnt even know how the files are moved to the boxes
lol
ADVERTISING SPACE
FOR SALE.
who_me
 
Posts: 303
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:49 am

Next

Return to Slyck News

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

© 2001-2008 Slyck.com