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Usenet for absolute beginners

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Usenet for absolute beginners

Postby loninappleton » Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:10 pm

After having just recently read the Slyck news story about what to do after Demonoid I may have to bite the bullet on Usenet. A previous thread says it's now easy and that file assembly on completion is automated and so forth.

But the news story from Aug 8th gave the insight on why Demonoid was considered the best ever: The Scene had a chance to develop over years. And it is more than just the upload of Top 40 tunes or CAMS etc. There were several of us who, unknown to each other, were archiving rare films collected from possibly video stores, as well as libraries etc to produce a Memory Alpha (from Star Trek): a library of the knowledge and media held in many places so it could not be destroyed by one site going down. I had one torrent that went to some 40k iterations.

This brings up my first two questions:

First, as a user of Usenet in the early and middle 90's I know that newsgroups were free. I never dealt with any sort of binary file sharing. But what changed at or in Usenet? How did pay-as-you go come to be in what was the predecessor of the world wide web as a free to use source? Also related: Has the same sort of continuous saturated advertising become a part of sites such as NZB where the content is listed?

Second is retention. I have had torrents going for years-- those pieces described above which are available nowhere else.
How does retention, even if quite long, eventually expire? Does the content have to reestablished continually?

That should get the discussion going.
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Re: Usenet for absolute beginners

Postby MrFredPFL » Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:30 pm

ok, in the middle of mowing the lawn, so i'll make this one a quickie. and hey, who doesn't love a quickie? well, guys, anyway ;)

in the early days, usenet was a text bulletin board, which requires essentially no resources to run. but once people started uploading large... files, and the demand for those... files skyrocketed, the requirements for both server speed and capacity, as well as bandwidth, skyrocketed too. someone has to pay for that. it's not the kind of thing a hobbyist can maintain out of their own pocket anymore.

yes, if something is purged because it was originally uploaded too long ago, it has to be re-uploaded.
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Re: Usenet for absolute beginners

Postby loninappleton » Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:56 pm

I understand by this then that there is no (I always get the words wrong here) agreggator or index of any permanence to point to who has the content. This what Demonoid and other indexes do and the "pointer" on the index is held indefinately.

I have tried to "double back" on some of this trying to locate other indexes containing my content by using a free program-- $5.00 for the enhanced version -- of a program called Bit Che. This does not mean "bitch" and only has a slight reference to South American revolutionary heros. The author tells us that "che" in Spanish means friend (as opposed to amigo I guess.) On this program I have tried to look up my own stuff to see what trackers have picked it up and if my descriptions are printed to read etc.

http://convivea.com/ for Bit Che

Very few show up that way. Yet I can see active seeds on DHT in the tracker info tab on my uTorrent program. If DHT is seeding and so-called UDP tracker sites as openbittorrent which contain no descriptive info are continuing to transmit the tracker pointer to the file, this is like being in a library with the lights off. How does Usenet provide solutions to such a dilemma?
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Re: Usenet for absolute beginners

Postby tehdoomsayer » Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:22 pm

Usenet's retention on most providers now is >4 years. Usenet isn't as comprehensive an index as bittorrent, but you can find recent... files easily and tbh torrents will always exist for older... files. I honestly can't remember the last time I couldn't find what I was looking for on usenet, though. There are also really good community sites for usenet, such as nzbsrus and newzbin2, that will upload file requests from users.
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Re: Usenet for absolute beginners

Postby loninappleton » Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:34 pm

This is part of a much larger discussion about how persons see their relationship to bittorrent or Usenet. I have done ups just to get my average increased. But when I see one of those picked up-- something like "Trapped By Television" from 1936-- and people are thus learning from the content it is different from simply looking for older Batman movies. A 4 year retention is nothing in terms of an archive. Look at it this way as well: if you don't know what you are looking for there's no way to make the inquiry.
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Re: Usenet for absolute beginners

Postby Sfl0w » Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:34 am

Usenet is much more than just a 4 year archive - it is an always on, full speed storage, delivery and discussion community. Torrents can be online longer tis true, but their overall reliability and quality is usually only but a shadow of what the Usenet delivers.

If I find something old that is tough to find, it may be on a torrent and then I have to go through the painful experience of retrieving it at dialup modem speeds - days or sometimes even weeks later after I have transferred the file I will usually turn around and post that to the Usenet to save anyone else from such a painful agonizing torrent experience. I'm not a torrent hater, I am just a practicle high-speed internet user. Gimmie some Usenet anyday :thumbup:
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Re: Usenet for absolute beginners

Postby loninappleton » Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:50 pm

Truth to tell I'd like to be getting current product again though I can't say I've missed much and am happy with old b/w noir and sci-fi shows for an hour or so in the evening.

But there will be some newer stuff I'd like to get. The problem is I've been red lighted a couple times at the ISP and so I've been laying low. And from news at Slyck I know that Usenet is not immune from the MPAA. You can respond to that or not.

The Usenet d/l procedure is automated nowadays according to previous responses here. But how does one construct the RAR from an AVI or MKV? Many of my pieces are "message items" of one sort or another. It is pointless for me to get content and make shares without knowing it will be well- distributed. Bittorrent has been described as "advertising" for new content and some is just pure entertainment. But for documentaries and such for those who have access to Usenet/Bt but not a good source archive such as a well-stocked library it is also a way of "broadcasting" where I may have no other voice for the message.
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Re: Usenet for absolute beginners

Postby HouseCrowd » Sat Aug 25, 2012 7:20 am

loninappleton wrote:The Usenet d/l procedure is automated nowadays according to previous responses here. But how does one construct the RAR from an AVI or MKV?


I think you may be trying to run before you can walk.

Making Rar sets is simple but it's not something you need to know how to do to be able to download from newsgroups and uploading is not something you should be concerned with, certainly not yet at least.

Newsgroups, by its very nature, does not require many uploaders to be a sustainable resource. In fact, it operates best if the uploaders are fewer and more experienced. If everyone uploaded, quality would suffer, there would be more duplicates and retention would be lower.

It's an 'upload once, download many times' service. Once a file is uploaded to newsgroups, it remains there for as long as the retention allows.
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Re: Usenet for absolute beginners

Postby loninappleton » Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:24 pm

I'll consider myself spanked for thinking about doing uploads. But let's try a sample search just to see what depth the Usenet holder of file has.

I recently made a torrent of the film "Zoot Suit" by Luis Valdez. How would I look up and would I find this small film which was on VHS when VHS was new (I rented Zoot Suit from the store at that time) and went on to DVD? Or would I find it at all?

This is a good pick because it goes back to before the web and a Usenet source would be a good test.

I consider that if not found from a search I might have to do something like make a request and see if the request and pointer to file is given back to me.

In step by step (but without a current Usenet account) how would I check this?
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Re: Usenet for absolute beginners

Postby loninappleton » Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:32 pm

Follow up:

I just used the program Bit Che to look up my torrent of Zoot Suit. It appeared under the Bit Che program in BitSnoop which I am hardly at all familiar with except from using Bit Che. uTorrent' s added default trackers has kept it going.
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