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Pirate Bay Boycotts Press after Public Witch-Hunt

Postby SlyckTom » Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:33 pm

Story : http://torrentfreak.com/pirate-bay-boycotts-press-after-public-witchhunt-080912/

Following a turbulent week where The Pirate Bay was smeared by the mainstream media for linking to publicly available autopsy photos of two murdered kids, The Pirate Bay has decided to boycott all press for the time being.

This spring, two toddlers were brutally murdered in Sweden, while their mother ended up in a coma. The double-murder shocked the country and was widely covered in the Swedish media during the following weeks.

Several weeks after the drama, the police investigation was completed and the charges were announced. In Sweden, there is a law that all documents from the government should be publicly available. A police investigation like this becomes available to the public after charges have been made, and that was exactly what happened here.



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Re: Pirate Bay Boycotts Press after Public Witch-Hunt

Postby Fartingbob » Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:28 pm

The odd thing is this nobody knowledgable is saying that these photos were illegal in sweden, as the article says its public information available to anyone. So these files (however distasteful they may be) have less of a reason to be taken down than most of the other torrents on the site which has copyrighted material.
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Re: Pirate Bay Boycotts Press after Public Witch-Hunt

Postby Ashibael » Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:56 pm

Fartingbob wrote:The odd thing is this nobody knowledgable is saying that these photos were illegal in sweden, as the article says its public information available to anyone. So these files (however distasteful they may be) have less of a reason to be taken down than most of the other torrents on the site which has copyrighted material.


You hit the nail on the head. Frankly, no matter how distasteful pictures are (and I have seen some just as.... squicky as these), the person still has the right to post them as long as they are not illegal by some other law, ala child pornography laws.
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Re: Pirate Bay Boycotts Press after Public Witch-Hunt

Postby Godzillaland » Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:07 pm

As much as I support Pirate Bay, I can't support them on their view about these pictures.

I don't care if they are legal under the laws there or not. Stuff like that should not be made available for download by anyone. The family of the murdered children have suffered enough and thats all these images are doing. The guys from Pirate Bay should show that they also have humanity by removing these files and explaining why.


It makes me respect them a little less. After all, how would they feel if it had been their family members that ended up on there.
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Re: Pirate Bay Boycotts Press after Public Witch-Hunt

Postby Dazzle_2 » Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:09 pm

Of course common sense would ask what possible legitimate reason is there to publish them on the Bay.

I cant think of any.
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Re: Pirate Bay Boycotts Press after Public Witch-Hunt

Postby Tyranoth » Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:10 pm

Well they brought this one themselves. The family of the slain children specifically contacted the "The Piratebay" and asked them to take the pictures down. The staff refused and now they have this PR nightmare. Some one should slap them in the face and give them a reality check. This isn't about RIAA's or Hollywood, this is about two murdered kids and the decency to say "hey I know the fucking difference between decency and principles". Now furthermore they should think about of the parents feel and how destroyed they were when there kids was murdered. Do you really want to force an issue like this when you know the parents state mind would be iffy at best. Honestly, people are killed everyday for less than this. Do you really want to push something like this when you know the parents have to be in very depressed state of mind as is, do you really want to take them to that cliff and push them mentally.
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Re: Pirate Bay Boycotts Press after Public Witch-Hunt

Postby EvilWizardGlick » Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:14 pm

Godzillaland wrote:As much as I support Pirate Bay, I can't support them on their view about these pictures.

I don't care if they are legal under the laws there or not. Stuff like that should not be made available for download by anyone. The family of the murdered children have suffered enough and thats all these images are doing. The guys from Pirate Bay should show that they also have humanity by removing these files and explaining why.


It makes me respect them a little less. After all, how would they feel if it had been their family members that ended up on there.


Why?
Ever watch Audition? Maybe a movie but just as freaky.
The bigger question is were they posted as a trap.
Finally keep in mind that free speech is ugly by nature. The ugliness is what is to be protected.
I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
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Re: Pirate Bay Boycotts Press after Public Witch-Hunt

Postby Dazzle_2 » Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:45 pm

As I will keep repeating free speech is fine, just be aware it has a price, if the Bay guys are happy to be seen as folks who put their ideals above human decency thats what the price is.

Free speech comes with responsibility.
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Re: Pirate Bay Boycotts Press after Public Witch-Hunt

Postby Paladwyn » Fri Sep 12, 2008 6:35 pm

Well...I have to side with the - although the posting of the pictures is a disgusting act, I don't feel they should have to take them down.

With all due respect for the family and friends of the children...I understand how they would feel...but there is no legal obligation for them to take them down, only moral - and they aren't the ones who posted them...only hosting the tracker.

This is a double sided coin, after all - at one time somebody says "The aren't hosting the files, they aren't doing anything wrong, long live the Bay!!" and as soon as something gets posted they don't like it's "They really should take it down, it would only be right". Where does one draw the line?

Well, the admins of the Bay have drawn the line, and carved it in stone...they don't take down torrents.
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Re: Pirate Bay Boycotts Press after Public Witch-Hunt

Postby MrFredPFL » Fri Sep 12, 2008 6:38 pm

to me, and i think to many others here, this was never about free speech to begin with, or what they were or were not obligated to do under the law. nor was it about ugliness. it was about, as godzillaland so aptly put it, showing some humanity.

Tyranoth wrote:hey I know the fucking difference between decency and principles


bingo.
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Re: Pirate Bay Boycotts Press after Public Witch-Hunt

Postby MrFredPFL » Fri Sep 12, 2008 6:41 pm

paladywn: imo, your discussion of legal obligation is totally irrelevant here. they have made it clear they don't care whether the law requires them to take something down or not, so i have no idea what point you make even bringing that up.
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Re: Pirate Bay Boycotts Press after Public Witch-Hunt

Postby Paladwyn » Fri Sep 12, 2008 6:44 pm

I only brought it up to show that the pictures aren't illegal there anyways...as they are public information. There may be people that didn't read through and would contest the legality. Was only as a reference, and not much for argument sake.
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Re: Pirate Bay Boycotts Press after Public Witch-Hunt

Postby MrFredPFL » Fri Sep 12, 2008 6:49 pm

Ernesto wrote:As many people know, The Pirate Bay is known not to censor anything from the site that is legal under Swedish law.


can anyone point me to an example of them taking down ANY torrent, legal or not?
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Re: Pirate Bay Boycotts Press after Public Witch-Hunt

Postby Paladwyn » Fri Sep 12, 2008 6:54 pm

As far as I know...they have taken down 0 torrents.

Largely due to sweedish law in saying that the host of a tracker is not responsible for the content, as they do not host the actual files (I know it's worded differently, but this is it in simple mans terms).

Therefore, as their law currently is, they are never obligated to remove any torrents. So - there is in black and white... HOWEVER, as Fred said..this isn't an issue about legality, it's morality.
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Re: Pirate Bay Boycotts Press after Public Witch-Hunt

Postby MrFredPFL » Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:05 pm

Ernesto wrote:This was exactly what Peter feared, and the TV show promised to avoid.


thank you for fixing that :)
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Re: Pirate Bay Boycotts Press after Public Witch-Hunt

Postby Psisquared » Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:11 pm

I think we had this conversation in another thread. I said the PB would have a PR problem with this... and now they do.
I think its a mistake to think about this as a freedom of speech issue. Just because something is legally available publically doesn't mean that it needs to be distributed on a massive scale, especially after an emotionally charged request to take it down. This isn't companies and profit we're talking about here.
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Re: Pirate Bay Boycotts Press after Public Witch-Hunt

Postby Overnet User » Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:57 pm

While I admit I have tried to find the material in question with no luck as to see how many seeders and lechers were on the said files out of curiosity sake, I don't really think TPB could have taken down the said torrents without opening Pandora's Box. This would lead to them being the morality police and open criticism in the future over why did you take down this one and not this one and etc. This would open them up to the influence of them viewing every file to see if it is decent and "moral". I do remember seeing on the news lots of pictures of children dead in Afghanistan with messed up bodies which were so grosss that I couldn't look at them but I didn't really see the news networks getting the finger for showing the videos and photos. How is TPB much worse than them? So maybe news = good, TPB=bad? This doesn't make since.
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Re: Pirate Bay Boycotts Press after Public Witch-Hunt

Postby MrFredPFL » Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:11 pm

or maybe it's just a case of the difference between anonymous people and named people, whose relatives made a specific request...

most people here who feel they should have taken them down do NOT feel that way because they think all "gross" content should be removed. i certainly don't.
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Re: Pirate Bay Boycotts Press after Public Witch-Hunt

Postby georgegad » Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:27 pm

Paladwyn wrote:....There may be people that didn't read through and would contest the legality.

Yeah, i think the other thread people seemed to suggest they had broken the law. I was expecting all this was public info anyway and the only person why might have done anything wrong was the original individual who took the images out of the police investigation rooms prematurely.



It never seemed a moral issue to me. Just seemed like some person thought their personal case was more important than the set policy, because it was very emotional for them. I dont believe it was, if unreasonable exception was made for them, then everyone would want exceptions for themselves too. Next we will have the harry potter author saying she should be exempt because it is so very emotional for her.

No. Noone is above the set policy. If naked pictures of me turned up on TPB i would be horified, but i honestly wouldnt expect any exceptions would be made on my behalf. My anger would be turned towards the person who posted them, not the site they were posted to.

I apreciate that TPB stood firm on this. I would have been disapointed if they hadnt.

EDIT> Overnet User posted while i was typing and i like his points too. If people are obliged to not air offensive material a lot of others should be called into question. I dont watch the news anymore, because is often offensive. At least with TPB i can choose not to subject myself to it.
Last edited by georgegad on Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pirate Bay Boycotts Press after Public Witch-Hunt

Postby Paladwyn » Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:33 pm

Well, if the family had asked the legal system to not release the pictures to the public...what would they have been told?

I am not even sure it's a question on morality...but of standards.

Let this be a lesson to all who want the Bay to take down torrents...they won't, we all can be sure that every torrent that makes it's way to the Bay, is there to stay..

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Re: Pirate Bay Boycotts Press after Public Witch-Hunt

Postby Lee1001 » Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:01 am

This may just be the straw that's going to break TPB,and they walked right into it.It's obvious that the Swedish public,and therefore the government,have turned against them,these people were their biggest supporters.If I was cynical I'd think that maybe it was posted on TPB by one of their"enemies"
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Re: Pirate Bay Boycotts Press after Public Witch-Hunt

Postby Fartingbob » Sat Sep 13, 2008 8:56 am

Godzillaland wrote:As much as I support Pirate Bay, I can't support them on their view about these pictures.

I don't care if they are legal under the laws there or not. Stuff like that should not be made available for download by anyone.

The swedish government makes them available to anyone who requests the police files for the case. Its not like TPB is the only place it was available. If the parents of these kids want to complain, they should complain about the law that lets them become available to the public as soon as charges are placed.
TPB is a scapegoat because not many will stand up to defend them and have their reputation ruined by the media in such a well publicized case like this is. This will hurt them in the short term as people blame the admins and not give them a voice to talk back and explain why they did not remove the torrents to begin with.
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Re: Pirate Bay Boycotts Press after Public Witch-Hunt

Postby BenJones » Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:25 pm

Ok, so you object a little because you don't lik the content?

Ok, imagine you're also a father, but your daughter is in a bondage or scat porno, and you feel morally outraged by it. The material is legal, but it upsets you to see that there. You send off a 'please take this video of my poor daughter off :nopity: ' email, just like in this case, should Peter + co take it down?

There's actually a better case for that, than in the case at issue. The porno, unlike the autopsy pictures, is age restricted in just about every country, and some countries ban these types of film. While there can be some legitimate interest in the pictures, for knowledge of the case, there's no reason for the porno than to whack-off. So yes, if anything those pornos should go first, but if that were the case, we'd not see the arguing.

Before you accuse me of being 'insensitive' etc. yes I do have kids. Three of em. I've also seen plenty of autopsy pics, In the UK there was a multi--part series called 'real life crimes' which often contained autopsy pics, as well as detailed crime descriptions and analysis. I've also (professionally) taken pics of dead people at accidents, or as Sergent Angel would say "incidents, because accident implies there's no one at fault'.

It might be because I don't let sentimentality get in the way, because I don't let arguments that are worthless except as an emotional attack, from enabling the use of my brain, and the facts. Oh, and those that say "they never remove anything" i remmeber that there was a bit of a squall among some members a few months back, when they found a number of torrents deleted. The torrents were, I believe, model picturesets, of various ages. there was some dispute to their legality. So yes, when it's considered illegal, they will, and they have deleted them. The reason they haven't deleted this torrent, is the torrent is not illegal. If it is not illegal, where's the problem? As others have said, it's freely available to those that wanted to pay for a case file. Whats more, i'm guessing the next time Marshall Cavendish (or whoever) decides to redo "Real Life Crime (one a week, only 99p first issue! Free binder with the second!)" this case, including the autopsy pics might be included.

Judgements on what's allowed based on morality, rather than legality even has it's own name. It's called Censorship. A Censor is just someone that feels no-one else should see something, because thats what he feels is right. Sounds like a good description of this case to me.
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Re: Pirate Bay Boycotts Press after Public Witch-Hunt

Postby MrFredPFL » Sun Sep 14, 2008 2:03 pm

and yet there you go, ben, making emotional arguments yourself ;)

to me, this is not about legal obligation or rights, or censorship or free speech, or morality or gross content.

have you never done something you would have preferred not to do, or not done something that you would have rather done, because someone asked you to do it or not do it? have you never done anything in your life in the interest of getting along with others?

not everything in life is about legal obligation. sometimes people do favors for others, not because of any compulsion under the law to do so, but rather because they think it's the right thing to do. it's a part of life to many people.

does TPB have the right to refuse to remove that torrent? you bet they do. do you have the right to not turn the stereo down, even though your wife asked you to? sure you do.
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Re: Pirate Bay Boycotts Press after Public Witch-Hunt

Postby NocturnalVagabond » Sun Sep 14, 2008 3:06 pm

BenJones wrote: there's no reason for the porno than to whack-off.

What about the intricate plot and the groovy soundtrack?
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