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Official ACS:LAW/DL letter/legal threat discussion

For discussion of the threatened legal action surrounding the alleged filesharing of pornography, computer games and music. (Golden Eye Int LTD / GEIL / MIRCOM / TCYK)
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Welcome to this forum, should you have received a letter do not panic, read the threads and make a (hopefully more informed) decision on how you want to proceed.

To avoid repeating previous posts, please familiarise yourself with the following information before posting.

Summary site (BeingThreatened.com) and Chat (IRC) or Chat (WebClient)

Speculative invoicing and “pay up or else” schemes for copyright infringement - Citizen's Advice Bureau

Speculative Invoicing Handbook

I've received a letter, what should I do? and Davenport Lyons - What can we do as a group?

Re: The new official Davenport-Lyons lawsuit thread

Postby MXRACER » Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:13 am

It looks like if you have any P2P software on your machine you are at risk of having one of these letters sent to you. They don't really care if you did or didn't download. The fact that you could of and they have so called tested the fact that you could of therefor means you did!... crazy

I know they have located the IP address but is there a code that is unique to your PC? could I find this code and cross reference it with my own Mac to prove I didn't do it?

Thanks peeps
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Re: The new official Davenport-Lyons lawsuit thread

Postby dotpixel » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:17 pm

MXRACER - the fact that you have a Mac and not a PC is probably good enough for a reasonable judge to decide you didn't do it. Ask to see the "evidence" from DL, and it should show the version of the file-sharing client you were allegedly using. I would put my money it was a PC and not a Mac file-sharing client, e.g. eMule or uTorrent or something similar that runs only on a PC.

Don't forget to mention you only have a Mac to DL when you write back to them. I doubt if they'll risk following this through.

As far as the "evidence" they have - read the many forum postings, but they have virtually nothing. An IP address and timestamp, the filesharing client that was detected (which could be faked), and the fact that a file with the same HASH value was shared, in some cases not even the file name on the sharing computer. That's about it. No PC identifier, user name or anything like that.
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Re: The new official Davenport-Lyons lawsuit thread

Postby Me2 » Thu Sep 04, 2008 1:43 pm

MXRACER wrote:yes it's crazy, i'm not really a gamer and this wouldn't even work on my mac but I have already vowed never to purchase an Atari product off the back of this, I'm also really pi**ed about the fact my ISP rolled over and gave my details out without asking me first and want to leave them, anyone got any ideas of who I could use that wont just hand out my personal info willy nilly?

MY ISP only charged £6.50 to give my details out and for that they will lose my monthly contract of £20...makes business sense.


quite so, but for them to fight the court order could be more financially damaging to them, or at least thats one way they could look at it.
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Re: The new official Davenport-Lyons lawsuit thread

Postby PorkyPig » Thu Sep 04, 2008 3:06 pm

Further to my earlier post pointing out that ISP's do indeed give out telephone numbers, at least Freedom to Surf do..

I have just perused the spreadsheet that DL sent me which includes the ip addresses of everyone alledgedly downloading nightmare pinball 3d, I needed a magnifying glass but found my alledged ip address in there, it notes various file sizes between 442 and 935 megs, some iso files, some rars, some just file names with no suffix, what's that all about?

P2P clients monitored were UT 1.6, Bitcomet 0.56, emule 0.47a - c and Azureus, I believe this was just an ip hoovering up exercise.

In my case the spreadsheet doesn't show against my ip address, file size, file hash, username, GUID (whatever that is), Akt number (again, whatever that is), the spreadsheet that includes everyone else then ends but DL then supply you with the rest of the columns which are personal to me which include, title, first name, last name, address 1, address 2, town, postcode, telephone, all of which freedom 2 Surf dutifully provided courtesy of one Dominic Savage who didn't even have the common decency to inform me that my account was being alledgedly being abused, as a supposedly internet abuse manager that's crap!

I found that out months after I dumped F2S, they sold me out for £50.00 and they have lost over £700.00 in internet fees off me since..

THEY DID PROVIDE DL WITH MY TELEPHONE NUMBER, the register article is just a pack of lies in this respect!
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Re: The new official Davenport-Lyons lawsuit thread

Postby Duracell » Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:02 pm

PorkyPig wrote:I have just perused the spreadsheet that DL sent me which includes the ip addresses of everyone alledgedly downloading nightmare pinball 3d,


That's very nice of DL to mass distribute all that personal data, which is probably against the DPA, I wonder if that's why they only include the infringer in question's IP address in the 'evidence' info sent out in later claims.
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Re: The new official Davenport-Lyons lawsuit thread

Postby Fenrix » Fri Sep 05, 2008 2:43 am

New torrent freak article by Enigmax...

http://torrentfreak.com/isps-hand-over- ... es-080904/
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Re: The new official Davenport-Lyons lawsuit thread

Postby johnjohn » Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:26 am

Fenrix wrote:New torrent freak article by Enigmax...

http://torrentfreak.com/isps-hand-over- ... es-080904/

so I guess this is where a new wave of 'legal-scum-letters-demanding-money' begins. just less money per head this time. wondering what's gonna happen to those who are involed in other games, same recipe ? if so it would be a good timing to reply if one never replied.
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Re: The new official Davenport-Lyons lawsuit thread

Postby bubbster » Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:53 am

Guess this thread will start to grow rapidly soon then :(
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Re: The new official Davenport-Lyons lawsuit thread

Postby Duracell » Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:33 am

Yep, plenty of posters asking for what to do without reading the previous posts.
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Re: The new official Davenport-Lyons lawsuit thread

Postby Fenrix » Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:27 am

Has anyone tried using this service?

http://www.registry-trust.org.uk/Search ... fault.aspx



I am trying to track down the whole Polish lady £16k jobby but not getting very far. The missus used to work in a solicitors office and thinks the whole thing is very fishy. DLs costs of £10k on the nose are very bizzarre , nigh on unheard of. They can round up or down their own costs, but costs such as travel expences, food etc cannot be rounded up and need a reciept for award. So for everything to land magically at £10k is unusual to say the least.
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Re: The new official Davenport-Lyons lawsuit thread

Postby Skeleton » Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:41 am

Well having recieved one of these letters myself here is what i am going to do...
First i will ignore all letters until i get the court order, then i will attend court and fight this crap! :evil:
once they lose a few cases (and they will) and it becomes public knowledge, then it will be game over for their money making scam!
also i am going cancel my internet service with virgin media as they gave out my details and to rub salt in the wounds they have charged me for the privilege.
Next i vow never to buy a game made or published by Topware, ATARI, Codemasters etc.. EVER again, i will also make a point of voting on every games review site out there that allows and give their games low scores!
I have spoken to alot of people about this and they are going to do the same.
I am also not bad at web design and i may put up a few game review sites or something and give these guys the bad publicity they deserve! :twisted:
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Re: The new official Davenport-Lyons lawsuit thread

Postby hipraptor » Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:08 am

There must be a way of stopping DL infringing human rights on such a large scale, infringing in that the accused cannot challenge these orders to give up personal details.

There must be some law that can stop or make it more difficult for DL who are for sure taking the piss out of ones civil liberties and the UK legal system..
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Re: The new official Davenport-Lyons lawsuit thread

Postby dotpixel » Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:15 am

Skeleton wrote:Well having recieved one of these letters myself here is what i am going to do...
First i will ignore all letters until i get the court order, then i will attend court and fight this crap! :evil:


I'm not a lawyer, but not responding to their letters would be frowned upon by the judge and would most definitely put you on the back foot. If you were innocent, why didn't you respond? Best not to get angry, but respond politely, ask for more evidence, claim your innocence etc. On the other hand, if you requested more information and wasn't provided with it, the tables have turned in your favour.
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Re: The new official Davenport-Lyons lawsuit thread

Postby geoffro » Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:26 am

I have asked for evidence and they said that they were "under no obligation to supply evidence"
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Re: The new official Davenport-Lyons lawsuit thread

Postby dotpixel » Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:57 am

geoffro wrote:I have asked for evidence and they said that they were "under no obligation to supply evidence"


Well, they can say whatever they want, but I suggest you look up information about the Pre-Action Protocol. There are threads on legalbanter / uk.legal newsgroups, some particularly around this DL case. Remind DL that the pre-action protocols are designed to allow parties to exchange information prior to court hearing, and the fact that they refuse to supply information or enter into discussion would not go unnoticed by the court should they decide to take this matter forward.

Look up more specific / appropriate wording, but that's the spirit more or less.

My (limited) understanding of the pre-action protocol is basically to say - the legal system would rather the sides at least TRY to resolve matters before it reaches the court, to avoid wasting valuable court time etc. If one party refuses to discuss details and takes a case to court, usually the judge wouldn't consider it favourably to say the least, and may potentially reject the case on that basis alone. I might be wrong, so don't take my word for it and I am not a lawyer.
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Re: The new official Davenport-Lyons lawsuit thread

Postby MXRACER » Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:09 am

dotpixel wrote:
geoffro wrote:I have asked for evidence and they said that they were "under no obligation to supply evidence"


My (limited) understanding of the pre-action protocol is basically to say - the legal system would rather the sides at least TRY to resolve matters before it reaches the court, to avoid wasting valuable court time etc. If one party refuses to discuss details and takes a case to court, usually the judge wouldn't consider it favourably to say the least, and may potentially reject the case on that basis alone. I might be wrong, so don't take my word for it and I am not a lawyer.


Sounds like common sense to me dotpixel. What slightly concerns me is that DL have forked out a fair amount of cash on getting all these IP address's. Maybe this cost was covered by the game companies? either way someone is definitely going to end up out of pocket and that generally would be joe-bloggs ie....YOU n' ME
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Re: The new official Davenport-Lyons lawsuit thread

Postby dotpixel » Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:26 am

MXRACER wrote:Sounds like common sense to me dotpixel. What slightly concerns me is that DL have forked out a fair amount of cash on getting all these IP address's. Maybe this cost was covered by the game companies? either way someone is definitely going to end up out of pocket and that generally would be joe-bloggs ie....YOU n' ME


Oh no no no. If everybody did the same as us, i.e. objected to DL's weak accusations that wouldn't actually stand in court, and strongly defended themselves, then their entire operation would crumble very quickly not to be attempted ever again. It's those miserable OTHERS that either pay because they can't be bothered or because they got scared or whatever that makes it worthwhile for DL.

Taking cases to court wouldn't be worthwhile, because the first person to defend properly means DL get themselves thrown out of court and then NOBODY pays (not even those miserable others I mentioned earlier).

-- edit
I would dare say that if even one DL case is LOST in court, even those who already paid can claim their money back, saying - rightfully, that they were led to believe, by DL, that their "evidence" will stand in court, but the fact of the matter - it didn't. And clearly, they only paid out of fear. That's the level of risk DL are taking if they actually take a properly defended case to court. Not only losing future revenue, but also money already in their pockets.

The key though is properly defended
Last edited by dotpixel on Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The new official Davenport-Lyons lawsuit thread

Postby MXRACER » Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:36 am

HAS ANYONE! gone to court over this yet though? other than the not so 'famous fictional five'?

I've seen posts backdated to jan/feb on this topic and not one has come back on these forums and said YES I went to court and YES I was found not guilty/found guilty.

I've got 21 days to respond so I intend to use this to the full and hopefully something will be resolved before it's my turn to dust off the suit :D
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Re: The new official Davenport-Lyons lawsuit thread

Postby Converse » Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:24 am

New torrent freak article by Enigmax...

http://torrentfreak.com/isps-hand-over- ... es-080904/

Hi all, is anyone able to cut and paste Enigamx's article into the forum please as I seem to be having trouble accessing it via the link.

Ta.
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Re: The new official Davenport-Lyons lawsuit thread

Postby eldard » Fri Sep 05, 2008 1:13 pm

Converse wrote:New torrent freak article by Enigmax...

http://torrentfreak.com/isps-hand-over- ... es-080904/

Hi all, is anyone able to cut and paste Enigamx's article into the forum please as I seem to be having trouble accessing it via the link.

Ta.


http://torrentfreak .com/isps-hand-over-details-of-several-thousand-pirates-080904/

You need to remove the space between 'torrentfreak' and '.com' when you copy and paste it or just use this:

http://tinyurl.com/6npt47
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Re: The new official Davenport-Lyons lawsuit thread

Postby PorkyPig » Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:20 pm

dotpixel wrote:
MXRACER wrote:Sounds like common sense to me dotpixel. What slightly concerns me is that DL have forked out a fair amount of cash on getting all these IP address's. Maybe this cost was covered by the game companies? either way someone is definitely going to end up out of pocket and that generally would be joe-bloggs ie....YOU n' ME


Oh no no no. If everybody did the same as us, i.e. objected to DL's weak accusations that wouldn't actually stand in court, and strongly defended themselves, then their entire operation would crumble very quickly not to be attempted ever again. It's those miserable OTHERS that either pay because they can't be bothered or because they got scared or whatever that makes it worthwhile for DL.

Taking cases to court wouldn't be worthwhile, because the first person to defend properly means DL get themselves thrown out of court and then NOBODY pays (not even those miserable others I mentioned earlier).

-- edit
I would dare say that if even one DL case is LOST in court, even those who already paid can claim their money back, saying - rightfully, that they were led to believe, by DL, that their "evidence" will stand in court, but the fact of the matter - it didn't. And clearly, they only paid out of fear. That's the level of risk DL are taking if they actually take a properly defended case to court. Not only losing future revenue, but also money already in their pockets.

The key though is properly defended


I dare say that is why DL want everyone to sign an admitance of guilt as well as pay up, at least if this whole abuse of the civil law system in the UK eventually backfires on them, they can dangle these admissions of guilt in front of any court and walk away laughing, i'm sure that many senior lawyers at DL have already raked in thousands of pounds into their personal coffers and are rubbing their hands with glee at their next windfall.

Did YOU sign an admission of guilt? and pay up?, if so, you're in a far worse position that anyone that's fighting this case, you're sitting ducks, you better have not downloaded any of the other games on their hitlist, which gets bigger every day as they already have you by the short and curlies!

You may think that you you got off relatively easy, especially the hard core downloaders, but if you paid and signed their 'undertakings' you stuffed yourself.
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Re: The new official Davenport-Lyons lawsuit thread

Postby dream pinball 3d lol » Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:51 pm

hi folks just thought id put somthing in for the wives and solicitors from dl who probaly laugh with delight at reading some of the posts just mabye give them something to think about, so just for them GOOGLE GALACTIC ALIGNMENT 2012,sorry about that forum readers just giving them some science fact to think about
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Re: The new official Davenport-Lyons lawsuit thread

Postby Renegade » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:59 pm

and swiftly getting somewhat back on topic....
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Re: The new official Davenport-Lyons lawsuit thread

Postby PorkyPig » Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:01 pm

dream pinball 3d lol wrote:hi folks just thought id put somthing in for the wives and solicitors from dl who probaly laugh with delight at reading some of the posts just mabye give them something to think about, so just for them GOOGLE GALACTIC ALIGNMENT 2012,sorry about that forum readers just giving them some science fact to think about


Ahhh...

the end of world mayan calender in 2012, the world ends people sometime soon, don't bother saving up, end times are here, if you're good - rapture ( by blondie i assume) otherwise, plead insanity, i'm going to... i hope god believes me!!

totally OFF topic, dream pinball 3d, but fun anyway :)

Maybe you should try the David Icke website, he has an excellent news page, as does ICH. and you can flame people to your hearts content on ICH, just as well considering their content! real news! slyck pales into incomparison in that respect, but as a p2p source - brilliant!
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Re: The new official Davenport-Lyons lawsuit thread

Postby dream pinball 3d lol » Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:16 pm

PorkyPig wrote:
dream pinball 3d lol wrote:hi folks just thought id put somthing in for the wives and solicitors from dl who probaly laugh with delight at reading some of the posts just mabye give them something to think about, so just for them GOOGLE GALACTIC ALIGNMENT 2012,sorry about that forum readers just giving them some science fact to think about


Ahhh...

the end of world mayan calender in 2012, the world ends people sometime soon, don't bother saving up, end times are here, if you're good - rapture ( by blondie i assume) otherwise, plead insanity, i'm going to... i hope god believes me!!

totally OFF topic, dream pinball 3d, but fun anyway :)

Maybe you should try the David Icke website, he has an excellent news page, as does ICH. and you can flame people to your hearts content on ICH, just as well considering their content! real news! slyck pales into incomparison in that respect, but as a p2p source - brilliant!


well given there mentality and there method of facts i thought it quite good pmsl,ps my friend admitted to having there software allmost 2 years ago still waiting for court,but she did reply??
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