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Official ACS:LAW/DL letter/legal threat discussion

For discussion of the threatened legal action surrounding the alleged filesharing of pornography, computer games and music. (Golden Eye Int LTD / GEIL / MIRCOM / TCYK)
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Summary site (BeingThreatened.com) and Chat (IRC) or Chat (WebClient)

Speculative invoicing and “pay up or else” schemes for copyright infringement - Citizen's Advice Bureau

Speculative Invoicing Handbook

I've received a letter, what should I do? and Davenport Lyons - What can we do as a group?

Re: Official ACS:LAW/Davenport-Lyons lawsuit letter discussion

Postby ohnonothim » Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:05 am

samanthaj wrote:If the answer comes back well what do you suggest BT they say we don't care come back when you cna prove who did it because you can't use the NPO like this.
It's not for BT to say, even if DM asked such a question there is no need for BT to answer and it wouldn't affect the outcome of the hearing, BT is not, never has been responsible for tacking down people downloading without the rights holders permission.
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Re: Official ACS:LAW/Davenport-Lyons lawsuit letter discussion

Postby Time on my hands » Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:19 am

Navarre wrote:If they were in "the same process as the rest of us", I don't think he would have singled out two people of all those he represents, would he?

I agree the piece isn't well written.

I think he means if the alleged infringer isn't the Account holder the case would fall apart in Court.


I doubt that hae's representeng many people. Considering how groundless the letters are most people (sensibly) use their own LODs.

The bit about identifying the infringer who isn't the account holder is guff. It's ACS Law/ GM's job to do that.
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Re: Official ACS:LAW/Davenport-Lyons lawsuit letter discussion

Postby Offthehook » Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:20 am

Time on my hands wrote:MoS are on a serious PR offensive given the pummelling they've received. It's not surprising they've taken a hard line. Also the BEEB's music based stations will undoubtedly take a soft approach to any interviews considering their vested interest in keeping the big players in the music industry sweet.


Although we people were interviewed, responding with "couldn't remember downloading the album they said he'd downloaded and that he'd see them in court." is hardly a ringing denial of not doing it, ever.
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Re: Official ACS:LAW/Davenport-Lyons lawsuit letter discussion

Postby Navarre » Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:59 am

I doubt that hae's representeng many people


Suggest you do some research then.

Of course it's ACS /GM's responsibility - that's the whole point.
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Re: Official ACS:LAW/Davenport-Lyons lawsuit letter discussion

Postby Time on my hands » Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:21 am

Navarre wrote:
I doubt that hae's representeng many people


Suggest you do some research then.

Of course it's ACS /GM's responsibility - that's the whole point.


My research so far says he's representing at least 2 people.
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Re: Official ACS:LAW/Davenport-Lyons lawsuit letter discussion

Postby Dustin_D_Lense » Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:26 am

Billpayerr wrote:ah just found the link to BBC Newsbeat report http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/11484113

It's not the whole thing though


what the bbc has done is very onesided and disingenuous while trying to appear even handed.

By using newsbeat as one of the only news progs to cover the story, it has by and large acted as a 'not guilty' filter.

The news item was during the day when most people were at work and on a radio station targeted at the under 25s and most likely students or unemployed. So the letter recipients they reach are most likely to be guilty as they are already speaking to MOS's core market.

It is consumer programs like watchdog viewed by a much wider cross section of the population that would give a more accurate impression of who they are wrongly accusing.
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Re: Official ACS:LAW/Davenport-Lyons lawsuit letter discussion

Postby 999whatthe » Wed Oct 06, 2010 12:04 pm

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Re: Official ACS:LAW/Davenport-Lyons lawsuit letter discussion

Postby ACS Gits » Wed Oct 06, 2010 12:20 pm

With regards to court cases what Michael Coyle has been refering to, I suggest to new posters who are jumping to conclusions read all the previous posts.

The first case that I am aware of was the Darktrooper fiasco. Which happened about July last year (200 pages or so back). ACS Law had took it upon themselves to search the net for peoples usernames on here to see if they could tie anyone to downloading sites etc. The reason that they started to do this was some of the vetrans on here (ACS Flaw, Hickster, Absolute, Renegade etc) had managed to find some usefull information about ACS Law. Andy had posted on various forums claiming he lived in Monaco etc, Terance tsang had posted that he had recently downloaded champ manager (yes that's right he had openly admitted to copyright theft! Have a look on Hicksters blog the info is there). Dark trooper had papers filled against him but a court case never happened probably due to the risk assessment that would be involved as it would not look good doing someone for infringement when a member of a law firm was just as guilty. After which he fell of the face of the earth never to be heard of again.

You also have to remember that the first cases involving ACS were for dreampinball 3d (for the Wii and nds) and two worlds (for the pc and xbox 360 I think). The client at the time was topware who dropped ACS (reasons unknown but some snippets of info are in the leaked emails). There will have been other people who will have had court papers issued against them but as ACS were no longer representing Topware the cases will be lying dormant (they have 6 years from the inital letter to persue you in the courts) and any solicitor can pick these cases back up within the time frame. ACS might be finished but another firm can come along and continue the demands for cash providing that they are working for said firms.

EXAMPLE
ACS send a letter out to you for a scooter track and you play letter ping pong for a couple of months and you don't here a thing again.
Lets say for example logistep are the clients but drop crossley
Two years pass and you think no more of the matter then all of a sudden you recieve a new letter for the same infringement and think "what the hell"
The new letter is from a new law firm but they have taken Logistep on as clients and have started to issue demands and the whole thing starts again.
They are well within their rights to do this as the NPO has been granted, and your details are still with logistep and as long its within the 6 year time frame everyone is powerless to do anything about it.

So yes Michael Coyle will have 2 clients who have had court papers issued against them but the reason that nothing has happened is due to the fact that ACS no longer represent the companies. If Mr Coyles clients want to persue Logistep, Digiprotect Topware the cost will be Immense, as you will have to go to Germany, Switzerland ect and you would anly be able to cover the cost back if you won plus Mr Coyles fee's. If you lost you would need deep pockets!

The law firms involved in this fiasco will pick people who they think that they can money if they do go to court. They will look at all the angles:

Example 1 MR Jones lives at 29 down you road Chelsea gardens (average cost of house £750,000 on a private estate with no rented council houses) ACS send a part 18 request to the alleged infringer asking who lives there, where they work etc). He finds out that both Mr & Mrs Jones both work but they will not give him a penny so this will be a good target for court.

Example 2 MR Smith lives at cobble road Aberdeen has admitted to downloading on various sites and ACS have made the conection. However Cobble Road 95% don't work here and its all council tenants. ACS send a part 18 request and find out that MR & Mrs Smith don't work and have no assets. The term you can't get blood out of a stone fits perfectly here.

So which case do you think will go to court? EG 1 where he could lose? or EG 2 where he couls win but not get a penny with a massive bill to him, as a judge will rule what the defendant can pay.
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Re: Official ACS:LAW/Davenport-Lyons lawsuit letter discussion

Postby ohnonothim » Wed Oct 06, 2010 12:31 pm

999whatthe wrote:Don't think this has been posted!?

http://www.techeye.net/internet/new-leg ... -macmillan
Don't think so, but people REALLY should read @rich wargo's comment, it's EPIC. :lol:
Last edited by ohnonothim on Wed Oct 06, 2010 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Official ACS:LAW/Davenport-Lyons lawsuit letter discussion

Postby kickhisass1 » Wed Oct 06, 2010 12:37 pm

ohnonothim wrote:
999whatthe wrote:Don't think this has been posted!?

http://www.techeye.net/internet/new-leg ... -macmillan
Don't think so, but people REALLY should read @rich wago's comment, it's EPIC. :lol:


:rofl:
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Re: Official ACS:LAW/Davenport-Lyons lawsuit letter discussion

Postby Hickster » Wed Oct 06, 2010 12:42 pm

Time on my hands wrote:MoS are on a serious PR offensive given the pummelling they've received. It's not surprising they've taken a hard line. Also the BEEB's music based stations will undoubtedly take a soft approach to any interviews considering their vested interest in keeping the big players in the music industry sweet.


This is very true, however I suggest we continue with OUR PR campaign of "Reputation adjustment" with the MOS to!
Please feel free to email me at:
acs.bore@gmail.com

Read the BLOG Here
http://acsbore.wordpress.com

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Re: Official ACS:LAW/Davenport-Lyons lawsuit letter discussion

Postby dangletrousers » Wed Oct 06, 2010 12:51 pm

Hickster wrote:
Time on my hands wrote:MoS are on a serious PR offensive given the pummelling they've received. It's not surprising they've taken a hard line. Also the BEEB's music based stations will undoubtedly take a soft approach to any interviews considering their vested interest in keeping the big players in the music industry sweet.


This is very true, however I suggest we continue with OUR PR campaign of "Reputation adjustment" with the MOS to!

:thumbup: :thumbup: Count me in :thumbup: :thumbup:
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Re: Official ACS:LAW/Davenport-Lyons lawsuit letter discussion

Postby 999whatthe » Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:07 pm

Time on my hands wrote:
Navarre wrote:
I doubt that he's representeng many people


Suggest you do some research then.

Of course it's ACS /GM's responsibility - that's the whole point.


My research so far says he's representing at least 2 people.



So does anyone one know the situation with the 2 potentially being sued ? Did they plead innocence or ignorance or what ?
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Re: Official ACS:LAW/Davenport-Lyons lawsuit letter discussion

Postby Renegade » Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:12 pm

29 complaints were made to the SRA about Gallant Macmillan as of the 10th August:
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/c ... ing-106817

48 complaints by 23rd september.
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/n ... ing-116602

If any of those complainants is reading this message it might be worth seeing if the SRA are still investigating or will be passing the complaints over to the new legal ombudsman. If they are not handing these over it is well worth your while also filing a fresh complaint with this new body.

Also if you are innocent of the allegations made and find the letters to be excessively intimidating lodge a complaint.

File your complaint HERE
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Re: Official ACS:LAW/Davenport-Lyons lawsuit letter discussion

Postby dangletrousers » Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:35 pm

Renegade wrote:29 complaints were made to the SRA about Gallant Macmillan as of the 10th August:
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/c ... ing-106817

48 complaints by 23rd september.
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/n ... ing-116602

If any of those complainants is reading this message it might be worth seeing if the SRA are still investigating or will be passing the complaints over to the new legal ombudsman. If they are not handing these over it is well worth your while also filing a fresh complaint with this new body.

Also if you are innocent of the allegations made and find the letters to be excessively intimidating lodge a complaint.

File your complaint HERE



I filed a complaint about Gm back in August.I've emailed them twice for an update first and only reply informed me that ACS were facing a tribunal. Doesnt instill me with confidence :thumbdn:
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Re: Official ACS:LAW/Davenport-Lyons lawsuit letter discussion

Postby dangletrousers » Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:36 pm

Dont let that stop you from complaining though :thumbup:
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Re: Official ACS:LAW/Davenport-Lyons lawsuit letter discussion

Postby ohnonothim » Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:56 pm

999whatthe wrote:So does anyone one know the situation with the 2 potentially being sued ? Did they plead innocence or ignorance or what ?
Since ignorance is not a recognised defense by the UK courts, I rather suspect they plead innocence.
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Re: Official ACS:LAW/Davenport-Lyons lawsuit letter discussion

Postby samanthaj » Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:38 pm

@Acs gits

Could you explain the following please?

Can I ask is a part 18 offer the first offer that is received with the initial letter?

Also is it six years from the alleged offence or six years from the initial letter?

Thanks
LARPER LIMITED c/o ACS LAW SOLICITORS
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Re: Official ACS:LAW/Davenport-Lyons lawsuit letter discussion

Postby mb10101 » Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:41 pm

samanthaj wrote:@Acs gits

Could you explain the following please?

Can I ask is a part 18 offer the first offer that is received with the initial letter?

Also is it six years from the alleged offence or six years from the initial letter?

Thanks
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Re: Official ACS:LAW/Davenport-Lyons lawsuit letter discussion

Postby 999whatthe » Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:45 pm

ohnonothim wrote:
999whatthe wrote:So does anyone one know the situation with the 2 potentially being sued ? Did they plead innocence or ignorance or what ?
Since ignorance is not a recognised defense by the UK courts, I rather suspect they plead innocence.


Sorry, I was not clear in what I mean - I was wondering, are these 2 cases going to be test cases for this business ? i.e. if they are taking 2 cases to court and both sent LOD's etc. Then if the cases are lost, then it puts many innocent people at risk as could open the flood gates. However if found clear it may close down the whole business!?

Just trying to understand the implications !
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Re: Official ACS:LAW/Davenport-Lyons lawsuit letter discussion

Postby KingT » Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:56 pm

just wanted to post a quick response in line with the timelines of ACS letters being sent out.

I got my 1st letter dated around 9th Sept. I sent the usual template response and within 2/3 days I got my 2nd, to be exepcted letter not accepting my template response. That was dated I believe 23rd Sept. My reply to that was sent, again my recorded post last Friday and I have yet to receive my 3rd letter, which given the rapid reply to my 1st letter is now 'overdue', unless a 2nd denial puts me further down the list of potential payers and less a priority to reply too?!
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Re: Official ACS:LAW/Davenport-Lyons lawsuit letter discussion

Postby steve12345 » Wed Oct 06, 2010 3:14 pm

8of9 wrote:
MutatedBudgie wrote:
Thats interesting, is a court likely to hear and grant 2 NPOs against the same ISP (BSkyB) withing the space of 6 days. I have a copy of a NPO that is being distributed directly by Goldeneye that was apparantly issued on 10th Feb 2010.


Thats an NPO dated 4th February and another dated 10th February in favour of Golden Eye and then another on 17th February this time in favour of MediaCat. All naming BskyB as a respondant.

We know that CMW granted the NPO on 17th, was it he that granted the ones on 4th & 10th? Seems rather a lot in such a short time

steve12345 » Wed Sep 29 wrote:i received a letter from a company called golden eye int. its look like acs letter but i dont think they are lawyers though. i am innocent should i reply like i would with acs? anybody know anything about this company?


@steve12345
Could you confirm the date on your order?

Has anyone else had one from Golden Eye?


mr justice vos. dated 4/2/2010 stamped 10/2/2010
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Re: Official ACS:LAW/Davenport-Lyons lawsuit letter discussion

Postby steve12345 » Wed Oct 06, 2010 3:14 pm

letter dated 28/ sept
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Re: Official ACS:LAW/Davenport-Lyons lawsuit letter discussion

Postby cookingwithgas » Wed Oct 06, 2010 3:19 pm

mr justice vos. dated 4/2/2010 stamped 10/2/2010

Thats the same as mine
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Re: Official ACS:LAW/Davenport-Lyons lawsuit letter discussion

Postby notguilty2010 » Wed Oct 06, 2010 3:33 pm

Renegade wrote:29 complaints were made to the SRA about Gallant Macmillan as of the 10th August:
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/c ... ing-106817

48 complaints by 23rd september.
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/n ... ing-116602

If any of those complainants is reading this message it might be worth seeing if the SRA are still investigating or will be passing the complaints over to the new legal ombudsman. If they are not handing these over it is well worth your while also filing a fresh complaint with this new body.

Also if you are innocent of the allegations made and find the letters to be excessively intimidating lodge a complaint.

File your complaint HERE


I've filed a complaint with the SRA - not heard anything back yet though.
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