The official ACS:LAW/Davenport-Lyons lawsuit discussion

[kj2008]

SOSSARGE WROTE

Hi guys, i've read tons of this forum but i'm really not that much more confident about starting back & forward mailing for the next year instead of paying (after a denial letter first mind). When you guys say stuff like "stuff them, they can take me to court" - some of us dont want to be put through that. Is the reason nobody has been taken to court purely because organising dates for 100's of cases takes a while?

You sound like a Davenport Lyons plant to me. Joined only today and trying to scare people into paying. Do you think we are f_cking stupid?

Also when you mention "Some of us don't want to be put through this" Does that mean you are guilty and own your own home?

An innocent person would know that they can hound you for 6 years Also, they have gathered their evidence in an extremely questionable manner. (Telling the high court they wanted to pursue criminal cases which would require a jury then opting for civil cases which only requires a 51% probability of guilt from a judge who is probably so old that he/she needs nappies so they don't shit themselves whilst delivering the judgement.)

MY ADVICE TO ANYBODY RECIEVING DAVENPORT LYONS THREATS.

DON'T PAY, DON'T PANIC

[ghost1987]

"Some of us don't want to be put through this" - I believe that a LOT from us can't wait to finally meet them in that court,including myself.

[MrFredPFL]

kj: that attack was uncalled-for.

you don't know a person is a plant simply because they don't come in with a "i'll show them fuckers" attitude, and it's wrong to assume they're guilty of something with no real evidence to justify the assumption - that's exactly what DL is doing themselves. rise above it.

and fwiw, i could be wrong, but it seems to me that coming on this forum doing what you say they are doing would put them at risk of CRIMINAL prosecution. whatever else you might think about DL, they are not morons, i don't think. a person who would risk a very lucrative setup like this, and put themselves in a position where they could possibly end up in prison, wouldn't be very smart, imo.

but, that being said, i don't doubt they READ this forum.

[metoo]

SOSSARGE WROTE

Hi guys, i've read tons of this forum but i'm really not that much more confident about starting back & forward mailing for the next year instead of paying (after a denial letter first mind). When you guys say stuff like "stuff them, they can take me to court" - some of us dont want to be put through that. Is the reason nobody has been taken to court purely because organising dates for 100's of cases takes a while?

You sound like a Davenport Lyons plant to me. Joined only today and trying to scare people into paying. Do you think we are f_cking stupid?

Also when you mention "Some of us don't want to be put through this" Does that mean you are guilty and own your own home?

An innocent person would know that they can hound you for 6 years Also, they have gathered their evidence in an extremely questionable manner. (Telling the high court they wanted to pursue criminal cases which would require a jury then opting for civil cases which only requires a 51% probability of guilt from a judge who is probably so old that he/she needs nappies so they don't shit themselves whilst delivering the judgement.)

MY ADVICE TO ANYBODY RECIEVING DAVENPORT LYONS THREATS.

DON'T PAY, DON'T PANIC

I don't think those comments help and again, it is spreading -bad advice- when people are genuinely seeking help. That is exactly the sort of attitude that makes the forum lose its usefulness.

We have already estabilshed they did not tell the high court it was a criminal case. For the newcomers, the only proven way to beat these guys is by giving them bad PR. If you have any contacts in the newspapers, use them.

Hi

I have just received a letter from DL.

Is there any eexperience to show that having paid once you then get subsequent letters from DL with additional claims?

Campervan

There was a person many pages in that reported this exact thing. His friend paid in to the origional claim, then received another claim after for a different game for 3-4 times the amount.

Once they rope you in, they will try again.

I believe it was me who wrote that and yes,my mate paid them and few months after he received another letter with (can't remember) about £1800-2000 to pay and guess what - he have to pay it cause he just admitted to them on the first letter that he is a pirate,his solicitor adviced him to pay as well,nice price to ask isnt it? that money from him gonna cover 3-4 people who don't want to pay and this is how it is.

if someone pays and is caught again, of course they will get sued?!?! If I got a parking ticket on day one and I continue to park there, then of course I will get another! I think people have to remember that paying them does not mean it will get them off your back. Only for that one download. So the way I see it is, if you are going to continue downloading once you have paid, then there was no point in paying in the first place. That being said, for those who want to continue downloading, just don't download stuff of companies who are their clients!! As far as we can see, they only represent a small handful of computer game companies.

[ghost1987]

To Sossarge : I can give you an email to Which? PM me for details,except cracking my neighbours network I also provide help

[luk76]

HI

I received the letter last Saturday. It is not only games makers who are their clients. They are accusing me of sharing "Army F_ckers" - a hardcore gay porn!!!

That "interesting" film was made in Germany and a German company holds the copyrights.

I don't have to mention that I am straight, do I? And I did not download that bloody film !!

Can you imagine? Davenport Lyons represent some second-rate porn makers!!!

[dream pinball 3d lol]

well im sure there are plenty of folk getting letters for all sorts of bizzare thing,s from dl which is part of there game to make money,bit like police sending letters to kerb crawlers they get maximum effect and a laugh,but dl do it for money i urge anyone who gets these letters not to pay as it will come back and bite u on the arse,i am in firm belief that logistep are not regulated in the uk which is very firm defence in civil and criminal law hearsay to say the least,thats there bloody nose im sure

[Pinball Wizard]

Hiya guys

whatever happened to the summary thread that was created a few pages back? The URL I saved now points to a page which states I need to Login to view the page, upon logging in it then states:
"You are not authorised to read this forum."

Any ideas (MrFredPFL)?

Also, DL pioneering the gay porn industries lawsuits? I cant wait to see the imaginative headlines.

'Army F*<kers' downloader F*<ked by lawyers Priceless

@ luk76
DL have for certain wrongly accused 2 people (one verified by the media http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7697898.stm, the other being my friend). I cannot speak for others on this forum, but I am sure that many of the people participating on this thread are likewise incorrectly identified. There are many ways in which this could have happened, the most likely being either:
1) Someone else was using your internet connection (with or without your permission, wirelessly or wired) - They just threaten the account holder.
2) Your ISP has wrongly identified you as being the subscriber with that particular IP address at that time.

There are other plausible explanations, but those two are the main ones. I am almost certain that my friend falls into the second category.
If you respond to them they will most likely threaten you some more. I think it is important to declare your position to them. Do not expect them to say sorry and back down though. after a few letters of denial they will say that they are taking their clients instructions on the matter, and you will most likely not hear from them again (at least for six months).
Unfortunately, the legal system in this country allows for this behaviour by DL giving you and I little chance of contesting it unless DL actually take it to court. This could be up to six years from the alleged incident (not too sure about that last bit, but six years I have heard a few times as being the limit).
If (BIG IF) you recieve a court summons, make sure you respond to it and let us all know.
Hope this helps

Pinball Wizard

[zulu]

I too just received a letter from them at first I thought it was some car magazine then when I opened it and read the contents.I thought letters of this nature would be sent recorded delivery. They are claiming it's a film downloaded in April, that is over 6 months ago. It seems they got an injuction in Germany for my ISP to give my details they are demanding over £500 from me which I can ill afford.

Some advise to ignore it others say to reply and deny any involvement.

Its worrying me to death!

[Excallibur]

Hi guys,just joined the forum.I have received my first letter from these monkeys accusing me of downloading a porn movie over 9 months ago and asking for £508.I suffer from depression and live on income support so paying them is not an option.I have only just recently stopped receiving demands from multiple debt companies which I ignored completely and never responded to.Their continuous threats of doorstep collectors and court summons caused me nothing but stress and eventually came to nothing and now my debts are all over 6 years old so they can't take me to court anymore.
So you can imagine my deja vu feelings when this new attack came through the door.I was panicked to begin with but then realized that the fact I have no money or posessions of any value means that i have nothing to lose.
After reading their letter more carefully it says that the movie is property of this digiprotect but isn't that the company that does the snooping work,does that mean they produce porn as well,strange,further down i read that the original owner was harmony productions uk limited so i googled harmony and davenport and i found that harmony's address was the same as davenport's so does that mean a group of solicitors are producing porn.All very strange and shows how dodgy this is,I now believe this company is posting this movie on p2p networks purely to entice users to download it and then prosecute them.Surely that can't be legal,Isnt it entrapment ???? I now intend to just send them a letter stating my innocence and denying any knowledge and see how they respond.The worst that can happen is they take me to court,they have to fork out thousands,I lose and they have to accept a couple of quid a week to pay them off.Or I would go bankrupt.
Heres the companies page showing harmony with its original Davenpor Lyons address and the constant change of staff.
http://www.creditgate.com/companysearch ... MITED.aspx

http://www.creditgate.com/search/search ... ull%20Data

[Me2]

Entrapment to my knowledge applies only to criminal investigations.

[Clock-watcher]

Found this http://www.digiprotect.org/html/hc_london_300608.html on Digiproject - looks depressingly familiar.

Also this web site http://www.p2pon.com/2008/08/21/us-porn ... -lawsuits/ has more details of this company's actions.

[boingboing]

This lot get more dodgy by the day. I seriously cannot believe that a reputable law firm is acting in this way. Quite what can be done about it is another matter. I just dont get it any more. What are codemasters and atari doing getting involved with something like this. It really is into watchdog/cook report type con artist territory now, and yet they are a professional law company.

This all looks particularly iffy though. Perhaps we should concentrate on trying to dig up as much dirt on these latest developments, particularly the company addresses etc. It sometimes seems difficult to fight the atari/codemasters stuff as they are reputable companies, perhaps the press will be more willing to see this as a con if tinpot porn companies start getting involved.

[penumbra]

So, Davenport Lyons have moved to the seedier side. Interesting.

I knew this was coming as I'd been warned of this action by my ISP, but the letter hasn't arrived yet. I suppose it will this week.

The court action has been linked to already but here is a copy of the contract signed between Evil Angel productions (a different porn company to Harmony) and Digiprotect: http://www.zahnarzt-dr-mueller.com/Vert ... ertrag.pdf. There is a news post about that contract here .

Also, The Register seem to have been aware of the court action Digiprotect got the addresses for Davenport Lyons but unaware of the porn connections.

This is interesting because Davenport Lyons appears to be expanding it's repertoire of dodgy European companies. Digiprotect appeared on their list of clients back in the summer... but they seem to have disappeared now (annoyingly I didn't save a copy). Digiprotect have a loveley corporate web page with the slogan "Turning piracy into profit". Nice. Digiprotect will probably be using different software to the previous outfits, but their methods will probably be broadly similar. I doubt they'll explain them fully. There are an awful lot of German language posting out there about them - anyone care to do some translating?

The best thing about this? Michael Evans, Davenport Lyons' IT and intellectual property guru has appeared in The Times (which has quite favourable coverage of DL), revelling in their new area of expertise:

As Evans explained, Davenport Lyons has a good hedge fund following but it has also hedged its bets by attracting a racy series of clients including Agent Provocateur, La Senza and Stringfellows. After all, even if all the banks collapse there will still be sex.

He missed off the porn companies. I wonder why.

[ghost1987]

honestly we should do something before they block everything,soon people will receive threatening letters for using Internet.
Regarding that gay porn accusations I would be ashamed to talk with solicitor about that

[Eagle1982]

using a slightly modified previous post...this DL action has degenerated into sh*t

Does anyone knows exactly what which? is doing? I contacted them, they say they cannot help in particular cases, but they are folloing the subject. I think they might be interested in the new DL partner.

A long time ago someone posted saying they received a letter from DL dropping the case. Does anyone have copies of this letter? Can we get a copy of the apologies to the Scotish coupple? This would be good to have when answering them, when they say they dont do mistakes and their methods were verified by 3 different IT experts.

For the people who just received the letter I would answer with all the topics posted previously (deny you did it if it is the case, wireless if it is the case, cloned modems, their sh*t data) adding a question about their clients intention and the name and slogan of company which collected the data.

DL are one step away from assuming they love piracy...

[Eagle1982]

And I do agree this is the end of civil rights in p2p networks. Thanks DL...
Just turn off uploading or dont use them at all. How many times did you try to download a file (whatever type) and realized it was a porn? With this porn companies coming into play you can get busted for anything...unless they create a law against changing the name of files in p2p networks.

[kj2008]

after reading this page it is obvious that the P2P rampant downloading era is basically over. You see people openly boast about how much stuff they have downloaded for free, but with more unscrupulous solicitors and data companies wanting to cash in it is only a matter of time before most people start getting harrassed for money.

In my opinion chasing alleged illegal downloaders has just become the new "Ambulance chasing" for law firms.

This is just the beginning.

[Paladwyn]

However, it doesn't matter if you download or not...if you have an internet connection, you have a chance of receiving a letter from DL...and the chance seems to be getting higher and higher.

Can they really sue everybody in the UK? It seems to be getting to that point.

[boingboing]

Agreed. Its getting to be a liabilty even having an internet connection. And they dont seem to care if they catch anyone innocent in their net. Surely it is about time the courts told them to do something with the 'evidence' they already have rather than keep giving court orders for more and more people.

[sossarge]

You sound like a Davenport Lyons plant to me. Joined only today and trying to scare people into paying. Do you think we are f_cking stupid?
Also when you mention "Some of us don't want to be put through this" Does that mean you are guilty and own your own home?

You are the reason there's only about 15 people chatting on the forum and not many others post. Shut up.
Not all of us are sitting around rubbing their hands wanting to be the force that brings DL down, some just want to the letters to stop and carry on with their lives. I dont own a home - I cant afford to, and I didn't download this, but have other things in the past, like 80% of people that own computers probably have.

"Some of us don't want to be put through this" - I believe that a LOT from us can't wait to finally meet them in that court,including myself.

I think theres an equal amount that hate the idea of being put in a court room with no legal knowledge or money.

Thanks ghost1987, have PM'd ya..

Any techies have thoughts on the fact the filesize of the 'shared file' says an odd number like "-180" instead of say "1.40 GB". That seems a bit suspect to me, as though the file wasnt downloadable or non-existant, think i can use this in my response to my first letter?

Cheers helpful people

[Eagle1982]

my letter has the correct size...without units (Mb)...

[MrFredPFL]

sarge, i wouldn't make a big issue about specific evidentiary points. if you didn't download the file in question, then say so and say you won't pay for something you didn't do, and leave it at that for now.

I now believe this company is posting this movie on p2p networks purely to entice users to download it and then prosecute them.Surely that can't be legal,Isnt it entrapment ????

you believe it. but do you have ANY evidence to back up that belief? yes, i believe the scenario you describe would be considered entrapment, but without any proof, how far do you think you'll get with that?

[boingboing]

you believe it. but do you have ANY evidence to back up that belief? yes, i believe the scenario you describe would be considered entrapment, but without any proof, how far do you think you'll get with that?

That seems to be what the pdf contract posted by penumbra earlier seems to imply.

[Renegade]

The negative number could be due to integer overflow, where a database field is signed and has a maximum limit i.e. 65535, adding 1 will take it to -65534. So it could be the file they are accusing you of downloading is larger than their database fields were designed to handle.

More likely however is a simple transcription or typo.