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Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

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I've received a letter, what should I do? and Davenport Lyons - What can we do as a group?

Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby MajorMellons » Mon Aug 11, 2008 6:44 pm

fishslice wrote:apologies if this has been mentioned already, but PCFormat have run some story about DL suing 4 people in court for three or four grand. Have they done this or have they got their facts wrong?


If you read a bit further back in this thread, you'll find that these were 'Default' Judgements, ie the offenders didn't turn up, so DL win hands down.

They won't take anybody, who may actually turn up, to court...IMO :wink:
* "Davenport Lyons" and/or "Davenport-Lyons" and/or "Davenporn Lyons"
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby fishslice » Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:08 am

so when you say not turned up, the four people in question wern't there to defend themselves?

The story sounds a bit vague. I mean why didn't they turn up to court, I know I would, or are they just made up cases, we don't have any details relating to the case.

Are DL just inventing this story just to make people pay up?
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby Billy Smart » Tue Aug 12, 2008 7:05 am

Having seen on here the underhand way these people work i wouldn't at all be surprised if they didn't set up the court case.

ie pick people who they knew wouldn't or couldn't turn up.
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby MajorMellons » Tue Aug 12, 2008 7:15 am

fishslice wrote:so when you say not turned up, the four people in question wern't there to defend themselves?

The story sounds a bit vague. I mean why didn't they turn up to court, I know I would, or are they just made up cases, we don't have any details relating to the case.

Are DL just inventing this story just to make people pay up?


DL would have picked cases like......the people who had left their old addresses and could not be traced, so won't know about the court case, or maybe DL payed 4 people off, not to come, just to get default cases, to try and scare their other victims into paying.

Considering how many letters have been sent by DL, just 4 default cases, just confirms my belief, that they are blowing out of their arses.
* "Davenport Lyons" and/or "Davenport-Lyons" and/or "Davenporn Lyons"
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby fishslice » Tue Aug 12, 2008 7:42 am

MajorMellons wrote:
fishslice wrote:so when you say not turned up, the four people in question wern't there to defend themselves?

The story sounds a bit vague. I mean why didn't they turn up to court, I know I would, or are they just made up cases, we don't have any details relating to the case.

Are DL just inventing this story just to make people pay up?


DL would have picked cases like......the people who had left their old addresses and could not be traced, so won't know about the court case, or maybe DL payed 4 people off, not to come, just to get default cases, to try and scare their other victims into paying.

Considering how many letters have been sent by DL, just 4 default cases, just confirms my belief, that they are blowing out of their arses.


I've looked into this a bit further, it seems BBC News, Future Publishing and the News of the World are all reporting this story without any real evidance to back up the claim DL are making.

I say to Davenport Lyons if anyone from the company would like to comment on this forum about these cases, it would be in your interest. If there genuine, then you have a lot more weight behind your actions. If not then put up and stop wasting everyones time. Either way stop with the idle threats.
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby MrFredPFL » Tue Aug 12, 2008 11:58 am

DL might be lying about the 4 cases existing at all (which i think is unlikely), or they might be on the level - but unless england is very different from the US (and the legal system in the US is very closely modeled after england's), the 4 cases referred to are NOT involving people who moved and could not be traced. you cannot get a default judgement in the US against someone who has not been properly notified of legal action against them. "we couldn't find them" is not a valid excuse for not notifying someone of court proceedings.

there are plenty of possible explanations to what happened in those particular cases - but the supposed inability to find the accused is not one of them. who would oversee the attempts, and guarantee an honest effort was made? what would stop DL, or anyone, from simply claiming to have tried to find you, and then asking for a judgement? default judgements are only issued against people who have been properly informed of a case against them, and still, for whatever reason, did not show up to contest it.
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby hipraptor » Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:59 am

It is obvious that what DL have done is taken people to court who have more then likley never replied to any of there letters, people who bury there head in the sand and hope DL will go away.

Or maybe they have taken 4 dead people to court.
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby MajorMellons » Wed Aug 13, 2008 6:47 pm

hipraptor wrote:It is obvious that what DL have done is taken people to court who have more then likley never replied to any of there letters, people who bury there head in the sand and hope DL will go away.

Or maybe they have taken 4 dead people to court.


That's the point I was sort of trying to make!
And thanks to MrFred for putting me right :D
* "Davenport Lyons" and/or "Davenport-Lyons" and/or "Davenporn Lyons"
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby kamin » Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:10 pm

Can I ask, I've recently received one of these letters, they say they don't claim i have got the said file, nor did i upload/download the file but my service was used to do said action *sigh* now....how long has it been since you guys received your first letter? I'm on my second, has ANYONE who has replied to these vultures *ahem* this firm gone to Court? Has ANYONE seen a singular letter from an official Court? Something ive noticed with these letters is they use alot of 'we are sure' and 'we're quite positive', erm? Shouldnt it be, this IS the case, not, we're sure this will be the case?? Seriously... So what time frame are we talking here guys? A year? A few months? About a month and a half here.... I just havent found a single case on my intense searching of ANYONE being summonsed to Court? I wouldnt mind so much but if my ISP had better helpdesk I wouldnt be in this position, their response to my internet problems, 'see manufacturer....' this is why i tried fixing myself and im in this predicament!! Are we responsible for the actions of others who use our connection? Because it sounds to me theyre 'sure' we are.....
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby Me2 » Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:03 pm

The way I look at is this:

If the honestly believed that they had concrete evidence against everyone that they accused and believed that the court would award damages above what they ask for in their letters, then they would already have taken everyone to court without trying to get people to settle out of court. My arse are they doing it to be "nice", its because they know that they don't have any real evidence..
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby MrFredPFL » Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:18 pm

welcome, kamin :)

to my knowledge, no one here who has gotten these letters from DL has gotten anything from an actual court. yes, DL says they are sure you are responsible for what happens on your connection - but it seems like any european court which has ever ruled on the subject has said the opposite.

me2 is right on target - if they had the solid proof they claim, they WOULD take everyone to court. the fact that they have done no such thing, in my opinion, speaks for itself ;)
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby IL1 » Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:47 am

Some news that on the face of it looks worrying, £16k fine for a woman in a patent court for 'pirating' Dream Pinball

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7568642.stm

I would want to see more details yet. Did she admit the charge? This was taken to a patent court not a criminal or civil court. Any of our legal eagles got a comment on patent courts? If you deny the charge can a patent court try you like a criminal court?

I don't like the BBC article, it has the whiff of barely rewritten Davenport-Lyons press release to me.

OT - why does page 38 of this thread fail to load fully so often?
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby boingboing » Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:18 am

Some more detail:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -case.html

Looks like one of the original recent 4 cases that have been mentioned rather than a new case. It did say costs would be decided at a later date.
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby dedd » Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:49 am

I read this in the metro today... I'm starting to feel really sick about the whole thing.

Any more info from people who have knowledge of what's going on would be really appreciated.
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby RottenFoxBreath » Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:57 am

boingboing wrote:Some more detail:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -case.html

Looks like one of the original recent 4 cases that have been mentioned rather than a new case. It did say costs would be decided at a later date.


No,i think,reading both the bbc,and the mail article,that this is another,a "test" if you will.
so now they have the win in the ip court,DL now go to the civil court,and say,"look,this is already been proven in the ip court,so you cant come up with an excuse not to agree with us,the precedent has been set".

funny though,that she is a supposed "un-named",but the mail quite happily print her name,and details.

and what this needs is a shot in the arse,like,just for one person,to get the point across,that an ip address,isnt enough to prove anything,and their proof,while not accepted in a major no. of countries,is quite happily accepted by the fools who are in places of power here,and will readily accept anything a lawyer/barrister might say,whereas in line with common sense,it is not enough to prove anything,and is against privacy laws,as is monitoring users,without a really good reason.
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby Duracell » Tue Aug 19, 2008 4:01 am

"Some 35 per cent of people pay but others who ignore the threat of legal action or do not attempt to defend it can often find themselves in court and face heavier penalties."

Interesting comment. The answer is not to ignore the letters and defend yourself if not guilty as has been recommended here all along.
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby sharp910sh » Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:06 am

so what do we do, i would pay 500 quid rather than 16k.
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby sharp910sh » Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:27 am

keefy wrote:
sharp910sh wrote:so what do we do, i would pay 500 quid rather than 16k.

I was close to paying the £500 before I read this. Now I'm even closer. This is scary to say the least.



I may just pay, do you think i can still pay even though its been like 3 months?
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby eldard » Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:30 am

Well there are comments like this from Metro:

Metro wrote:Last month, Topware, represented by law firm Davenport Lyons, won a court fight against four people, including the woman, who illegally shared Dream Pinball 3D.


Which make me think it may be the result of the previous default judgment but I can't be sure at this point, I've emailed one of the authors of the article to try and find out.
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby asdaprice76 » Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:32 am

Well I reckon it's the same as it always was - there is no known right answer.

I'm sticking to the not paying them thing for now. There's a few thousand people they'd have to get through before they get to me, if they really are taking the cases for the Dream Pinball stuff first. Hopefully long before they get that far they'll be stopped in their duplicitous tracks, once they run out of people who admitted it and/or fail to turn up.
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby enigmax » Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:36 am

Let's cut the crap.

Woman gets court papers, woman ignores court papers, woman doesn't turn up in court, woman gets hammered.

Thanks to her inaction we have these great headlines all over the web today.
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby confusion98 » Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:40 am

not sure on how to quote here. but i read one of the articles which said she had moved. so maybe she didnt ignore them maybe she didnt get them delivered to the new address? just a thought?
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby sharp910sh » Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:43 am

I have ignored the letters should i send them a letter saying i didn't commit the offence, which i didn't anyways?
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby eldard » Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:44 am

enigmax wrote:Let's cut the crap.

Woman gets court papers, woman ignores court papers, woman doesn't turn up in court, woman gets hammered.

Thanks to her inaction we have these great headlines all over the web today.


If this were the case I'd agree with you, but the BBC seems to claim that this is completely separate from the other four cases. Although in the BBCs case there isn't even an author to email :?
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby Fenrix » Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:50 am

I agree this is horrendously scary, BUT at the end of the day, this just proves how bad it can be if you DONT reply and deny their claims. This woman got a default, by not defending, DL can ask for anything they want, they asked for the max they could in this istance and as the woman wasnt there, they got it. IF you reply and deny it, they will NOT take you to court.

Lesson from this to everyone should be , dont get a default against you as you will be in the whole for 16k.
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