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Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

For discussion of the threatened legal action surrounding the alleged filesharing of pornography, computer games and music. (Golden Eye Int LTD / GEIL / MIRCOM / TCYK)
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Welcome to this forum, should you have received a letter do not panic, read the threads and make a (hopefully more informed) decision on how you want to proceed.

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Summary site (BeingThreatened.com) and Chat (IRC) or Chat (WebClient)

Speculative invoicing and “pay up or else” schemes for copyright infringement - Citizen's Advice Bureau

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I've received a letter, what should I do? and Davenport Lyons - What can we do as a group?

Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby bunnox223 » Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:24 am

same as mine m8
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby jokster » Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:19 am

It absolutley stinks of a scam, but it would appear that they are bona fide firm; see here
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby pazuzu » Sat Nov 24, 2007 11:22 am

Hi ev1

i got 7 of those letters posted yesterday all regarding colin mcrae "dirt"... worse than that it was in my wifes name
due to the bt account, for a woman who hasn't a clue about computers at all- the words "dirt" "internet" "court" with her name attached got her really scared, she would loose her job if this were to go to court!!

but after a lot of searching i really think this is a scam the tilte says Dear Sir/Madam. for such an important allegation would they not address your name. also i think our isp (bt) has a lot of explaining to do regarding the data protection act.

so what i done was throw the lot in the bin and im trying to forget about it im not corresponding with any of these low life scum, it also stated there is a download of "4006" thats it not gigabyte,megabyte or kilobyte. i would admit if i downloaded this but really i didn't the kids use this pc and are downloading game demos all the time. maybe they went through the wrong channels to download it but i certainly cant find any trace for this game on the pc

excuse my language but davenport and lyons can go and f++k
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby grubbymitts » Sat Nov 24, 2007 11:39 am

All of you just chuck the letters away. They didn't come by registered post, so there's no proof you ever received them. No one in the UK has ever been successfully sued for copyright infringement using P2P technology anyway.

If they do come back, and they wont', insisting that you uploaded them a copy of the game, offer to pay them the price of two copies of the game - the one you supposedly downloaded and the one they uploaded off you. Or, even funnier, send them a letter complaining about them apparently using your pc and connection for illicit copyright infringement unless you see in writing their agreement with Codemasters saying that they could. This last bit would be fun as under Data Protection Law they can't and under the Freedom of Information Act they may have to.

But, generally, chill. The UK is not the US and even in the US they don't sue you for downloading/uploading (via BT protocol) one item.
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby ritch1 » Sat Nov 24, 2007 1:19 pm

I was tempted to write a letter denying the allegation but the more I am reading about this less I think its is a good idea. There must be some kind of loophole that allowed them the get our details off our providers, I would like to know more about that and why they were legally able to do it. Seems like they are banking on the fact that gaining these details would be enough to scare people, to be honest at first it did scare the crap out of me

I think I will also bin these. This has been a real pain in the ass, even though it now seems an empty threat it has caused people a lot of stress and worry, even the thought of losing £2000 with these multiple letters is stressfull. Theres no lenghs these scumbags wont go to in order to rob people of there hard earned cash
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby pazuzu » Sat Nov 24, 2007 1:56 pm

im going to send the citizens advice Bureaux an email about this matter before i do has anyone else contacted them?
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby enigmax » Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:03 pm

Citizens Advice were informed when Davenport were working with Zuxxez against the so-called 'Pinball Pirates'

Trading Standards we also informed and they said

'UK Trading Standards has declared claims against UK citizens as “very shakey” as lawyers “offer no evidence that the game was ever on your hard drive” and they accept that “there is no proof that you, or your computer were involved in offering the game for download.'

This case doesn't seem any different.
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby stupidman » Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:50 pm

had 2 of the same letters, but unfortunatly emailed them b4 i found this thread.

I know i have in the past used the azeurus program, but as i already own the game, and the computer i had at the time, really wouldnt have played it, i can only assume they are mistaken or someone hacked my unsecured network.

i am gonna send a letter, that i have wrote, asking for more info, and stating that i never downloded the WORK as they call it.

also that i do own the game and would be more than happy to show it to them.

i currently run 2 new PC's, and am also with a different isp. so there isnt any issue with letting them look over the 2 pcs for any illicit work owned by codemasters.

the only issue i have, when i emailed them about the 2 claims, i may have insinuated that i was gonna coff up, but that was when i was scared silly, and i thought i was facing a 1000+ bill.

heincite is a wonderful thing, shouldn't have replied, and stated if asked i thought it was a scam.

should i post the letter on monday by recorded mail??

any help would be great

rob
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby bunnox223 » Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:07 pm

just say nothing else dont reply, i rang them up and said that i might of downloaded it and if i did it was only for backup purposes as i owned the orignal at the time, they said to put it in writing and send it to them!!! yeh right, however looking back i never remember downloading it i have searched all over my pc and cant find it anywhere so i am just going to say no more to them and throw the letters in the bin as they dont have any hard evidence of the download only a ip address which i was wireless at the time and unsecured and could of been hijacked by someone.

say nothing
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby pazuzu » Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:10 pm

hi stupidman...dont do anything send them f..k all throw any mail you get from these assholes straight into the bin. im surprised that a firm like davenport lyons with its growing reputation is attached to this SCAM. but hey money speaks many languages. i just cant wait until they threaten me with the bailiffs as there is no bailiff laws in Northern Ireland im also a tenant so i will laugh even harder if they threaten us with eviction. :headbang:
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby ritch1 » Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:17 pm

From what I have researched it seems that the major mistake in replying to them is to admit anything at all, as long as you denied knowledge of the download when you emailed them it shouldnt matter. Everyone will probably get another letter from them anyway whether you reply or not, it just seems better not to in order to prevent some form of correspondence with them.

People who replied in the pinball case denying they had knowledge of the download just got mails back from Davenport asking them to prove they didnt download it! which is ridiculous as people where being asked to construct a defense for themsevles before being proven guilty. So it seems pointless to contact them as you will get that kind of rubbish back in an attempt to trick you

I havent decided if i will write to them yet but if I do it will be short and sweet, denying everything and asking them for evidence that i downloaded the full file.

I mean there are numerous defenses, im sure attempting to download a file is not illegal, what if you do it by accident, are you to incurr a £1000 fine because you clicked the full game instead of the demo in the file sharing program? There are numerous defenses. I dont think you should worry as now you have found a good resource, the other posters really know their stuff so you come just in time before doing too much damage!
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby bunnox223 » Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:36 pm

do you think i will be ok i might of mentioned that i might of downloaded it but it was only on the phone not in writing?
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby ritch1 » Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:02 pm

the general opinion seems to be that sharing the file is what they are trying to accuse you of doing more than just downloading it, they are also trying to say that they managed to get the entire file from the people they sent these letters to, which they could have no evidendce for anyway. In my case they say they got an entire 4 GB file from my machine 4 times, id like to see proof! they didnt supply that, all they did was connect my IP address to this file

they need it all in writing, thats why they would love you to send a letter to them admitting you downloaded and shared it! then they might persue something but i think even then they would have trouble bringing the case to court from what I have read. I'd still like to know if it was legal from them to get out details from our ISP providers? dont worry about it, you sent nothing in writing
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby bunnox223 » Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:07 pm

cheers makes me feel a bit better..

i got 5 letters all with different ip address on them mine changes when i switch off my modem! so what would you advise? should i just not reply at all to them?
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby neBuloid » Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:38 pm

Looking at the documents, I personally would treat this initial (unrecorded) letter as a 'fishing trip' with a very shaky basis and not meriting a reply (ie don't bite) at this stage in any shape or form. However, as someone who has worked for 3 years as a UK County Court clerk I can understand how many people would feel intimidated and pay up to get peace of mind. This looks to be the purpose of the letter and it would only need a small percentage of 'victims' to pay up after the first letter to make the whole exercise financially worthwhile.

If you insisted on replying and wanted a bit of fun could always just say "We refer you to the reply given in the case of Arkell v Pressdram" :mrgreen:




*Nothing in this post reply should be relied upon as legal advice*
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby ritch1 » Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:43 pm

Well its up to you whether you want to send them a letter denying it but in my opion you shouldnt, I'm not because of the fact the letters were not sent registered post which i find bizzare, they go to the trouble of paying your isp for personal information (if they did) then dont send a legal document recorded post so you could deny getting them? probably a good idea not acknowledge you have the letters at this point until more info on how to tackle this becomes available. might find they can be chucked and forgotton about rather than waste you time communicating with these idiots
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby ritch1 » Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:48 pm

I must admit I am getting the urge to write a letter taking the P### out of them but dont have ethe confidence yet to get that cocky!!!
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby stupidman » Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:48 pm

rich, i have pmd u a copy of my emails, lmk what you think, i dont think i have incriminated myself, but then i am stupidman after all :D
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby bunnox223 » Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:49 pm

what did you say buddy send us a copy aswell
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby ritch1 » Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:07 pm

I'd say it looks like your asking questions about the claim but have not actually admitted anything other than owning the retail copy, I cant see how they could incriminate you with that. The only negative is that it does look like your willing to give these demands the time of day and that might possibly make them believe you will pay something? If they accuse you of fully understanding the evidence as you said, you could always back track by saying you got an expert opinion on this evidence and now dispute the claims as it appears there is no real evidence you fully downloaded and shared this file. see what their reply says

send to others here and see what they think. I dont think theres much to be concerned about though
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby stupidman » Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:50 pm

that is what i thought.

i have a draft of a letter ready to go. anyone want me to pm it to them, i do address the "fully understand the evidence" thingy, by adding, but think it is ambiguous.

just let me know if you want it, and i will pop it over to you, dont want to post in open forum, as i need it to be as original as it can be, without too many people copying it.

will pm ritch it 1st
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby cf125 » Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:31 pm

hey stupidman send us a copy of the letter your sending.

has anyone else noticed the dates according to the first page on "notes on evidence" its dated bk in 2006 :S very fishy i think wat u think??
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby ritch1 » Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:32 pm

Yep thats the kind of thing I will send if/when it gets to that. Those points basically show the holes in that evidence, they demand I pay £2000 and show me no official signatures of the people involeved and proof of the files sizes downloaded/shared. they put all the letters in there unsigned!!!! I'm either missing something or they must think people are stupid, have they got a trick up there sleave I wonder? doubt it as they would have revealed it straight away, why wouldnt they?

cheers for sharing that
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