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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:42 am
by Meek
Just read the report on the DL page, it's obviously gonna be pro DL.
Had a bit of a chuckle with the accurately ID's IP addresses bit. I've read articles that similar programs have been fooled into thinking printers are downloading illegal material! Plus IP's can be spoofed.

Anyway........has anyone thought of creating a group to join up and fight DL? Like they did in Germany.
They managed to get 500 people together and I know their very organised, but we should be able to get a fair number of people together? just an idea anywho....

Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:52 am
by Duracell
From what I've read about on this 'latest' case it would seem that the defendent has at some point admitted to the infringement - most likely due to being guilty and/or, I'm guessing here, a slightly naive foreign national. My reasoning is that it's mentioned that she shared the downloaded material with friends by copying to CD/DVD and to actually gain that information she must have told them and at the same time admitting guilt as it would be impossible to discover that via some 'expert' in Switzerland. With that sort of evidence the IP (internet protocol) evidence wouldn't have even been needed.

Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:11 pm
by Alisha
Here's some more articles for info about the woman thats been charged £16000

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ourts.html

http://www.itproportal.com/articles/200 ... e-sharing/

http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/news/di ... wnload.php

It seems she shared the download with friends. So perhaps she admitted to doing that which is why she got such a big fine??

Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:32 pm
by Alisha
Why is the fine so high for this woman? £10,000 for solicitors fee's and over £6000 for the damage caused my copyright laws or what ever. If the games or whatever that are being downloaded cost £15 to £20 why are the fines so high?? I'll get fined less for drink driving (not that I ever had this so not sure) or nicking a CD from a shop wouldn't I??? Think the government need to WAKE UP and see whats going on, if this carries on there be even more bankrupt people they will need to support so the taxes will go up so on so on.... What with the way the economy is at the moment. People can't even afford there own home.

Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:06 pm
by sharp910sh
So what so we do? I don't like the idea of being wrongly accussed of a game I downloaded and "shared".

Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:10 pm
by MrFredPFL
alisha: with all due respect, it appears to me you are doing what i am sure is exactly what DL want you to do - namely, jump to conclusions and panic. i strongly recommend you wait for the full story to emerge.

Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:18 pm
by hipraptor
At the day, nobody will know what is going on until DL takes one of those here who are putting up a fight and not rolling over to court, which thye will do so as we are throns in there sides, mind I am sure they will try there hardest to make us keep quite by getting the courts to slap some kind os silence order on the defendent.

Mind since I am not a defendent and just someone who is figthing for someone else, I will of course spill the beans if someone I know goes to court.

Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:51 pm
by unhappy
Notice the 1st article says "Earlier this week Isabella Barwinska, who at the time lived in Leytonstone, east London, was the first offender to be made to pay damages to a manufacturer of computer games."

So does this support the theory that this default judgement was gained due to her moving house ?

Of course it could mean she's "done a runner" following the outcome.

Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:26 pm
by unhappy
Actually, thinking about this a bit more, the woman must have provided some details to either the courts or for the previous CCJ otherwise how did the press releases (i.e. DL) come by the information that she is from Poland, unemployed and has children. I suppose it is possible she said all this in letters to DL prior to the proceedings, along with probably admitting that she did the file-sharing.

Unless anyone can gleam any more info from their contacts I would suspect we won't get any more details on this case, certianly not from the press as news stories get stale very quickly.

From memory I can't recall anyone being sued by a court for copyright infringement that didn't admit it or where there was no supporting evidence. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:43 pm
by Fenrix
Someone mentioned that DL have delayed the news about the 16k due to a new batch of letters, they seem to be spot on, heres DLs latest statement :- http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/08/20 ... ons_25000/

reading else where i've read Dl have hit 5k people with letters so far, and with these 25k thats 30k peops they are targetting...

Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:47 pm
by MrFredPFL
unhappy wrote:Actually, thinking about this a bit more, the woman must have provided some details to either the courts or for the previous CCJ otherwise how did the press releases (i.e. DL) come by the information that she is from Poland, unemployed and has children.


there are countless ways for that information to be found. once her name and address are known, that info can come from many places.

Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 3:30 pm
by dream pinball 3d lol
well no suprise that dl delayed this news they want to show the next recipitents there prizes of course to add more intimidation,and suprise suprise a polish woman unemployed with 2 kids,or so ive read talk about cheap labour good investment for dl if they took nothing from this woman and she must be happy with the few quid she got,well there future letters will yield good sucess for them i bet and thats what they want,well most people who have these letters im guessing will be on the bread line so it may cost dl a pretty penny to get them to court,they dont want that oh no,mind you that gore chap is putting his neck on the line plenty of looney kids out there making bigger headlines than him,i dont envy him

Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 3:38 pm
by gremlin99
So Fred, looks like someone erased commas from lol's keyboard, as you requested. You like this one better, don't you? :mrgreen:

Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 3:46 pm
by MrFredPFL
amen. life is good :D

Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 4:42 pm
by BiddlyBong
Did anyone notice this comment from the Register article:
One of Davenport Lyons' ambulance chasers was interviewed on Channel Four News yesterday lunchtime. Krishnan Guru-Murthy asked him about unsecured (wireless) networks & how they could prove any wrongdoings. The guy basically said "if you tell us someone else might have had access to your network we won't pursue you"! Remarkable thing for him to admit, I thought

Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 4:54 pm
by boingboing
Is that available online anywhere? Thats very different from what they have been putting in their letters.

Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:02 pm
by boingboing
It is, at www.channel4.com/news , but no mention from DL, unless that bit isn't online.

Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:03 pm
by Paladwyn
indeed boingboing, they have been saying "It is your responsibility to secure your wireless, if somebody else has had access to your internet...you are responsible."

Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:05 pm
by BiddlyBong
Top Stuff:
http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid1529573111/bclid1740033160/bctid1741161010

They say that they have only chased people who didn't reply, and the unfortunate lady was a default judgement.

No sign of what the register chap said though :(

Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:10 pm
by boingboing
This seems to back it up a little:

http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?p=1805866

"Did anyone else see the douchebag from Davenport Lyons on the channel 4 news this lunch time? I think Krishnan Guru-Murthy could have given him a bit more of a grilling but the bloke made my blood boil with the dribble he was coming out with. However, he actually admitted that if people out-right denied the claims then they are more than likely to drop the case. Surely that's admitting to only going after more vulnerable people?"

Perhaps we need to get a transcript from C4. Certainly isn't what they have said before.

Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:14 pm
by sharp910sh
I think I will be sending these people a letter, do you know what I should say? I do indeed have a wireless network. It is not a crime to have a wireless network. What I do not understand is the letter says I downloaded the file when I was not home, work related. I should have evidence to back this up. Therefore how could I have downloaded the file? Nor do I leave my pc on. Should I add this too.

Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:45 pm
by Me2
sharp910sh wrote:I think I will be sending these people a letter, do you know what I should say? I do indeed have a wireless network. It is not a crime to have a wireless network. What I do not understand is the letter says I downloaded the file when I was not home, work related. I should have evidence to back this up. Therefore how could I have downloaded the file? Nor do I leave my pc on. Should I add this too.


If you have any sort of proof that you were not at your house when DL allege that you downloaded the game in question then only the most retarded or the most bent judge in the civil courts could find against you. There is no law making you responsible for the use of your connection.

Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:56 pm
by sharp910sh
Me2 wrote:
sharp910sh wrote:I think I will be sending these people a letter, do you know what I should say? I do indeed have a wireless network. It is not a crime to have a wireless network. What I do not understand is the letter says I downloaded the file when I was not home, work related. I should have evidence to back this up. Therefore how could I have downloaded the file? Nor do I leave my pc on. Should I add this too.


If you have any sort of proof that you were not at your house when DL allege that you downloaded the game in question then only the most retarded or the most bent judge in the civil courts could find against you. There is no law making you responsible for the use of your connection.


I do have proof, but i have read dl dont care, they could easily argue i left my pc on or i set it to download at a certain time.

Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:58 pm
by mat2153
http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid1529573111/bclid1740033160/bctid1741161010

The Channel 4 News report makes interesting viewing. They state that the recent case involving Isabella Barwinska was NOT defended in court. Also, the final comment by a guy from Zdnet states for people who have had their internet connection hijacked (wi-fi etc.) there would be another test case.

As far as i'm concerned, DL are only taking people who have not replied or have admitted their guilt (they dont want to risk losing against someone who denies the accusations) and the games companies involved want to get the publicity, the scare tactic. As do DL so that more people will be scared into paying up now they've sent another 25,000 letters. Its win win for DL and Topware.

Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:01 pm
by sharp910sh
if you think about it they have sent out 2500 letter, say they get 16000 from every one, thats 4 million quid. They got nothing to lose. It wouldn't suprise me if dp themselves have downloaded a game. or something else.