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Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

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I've received a letter, what should I do? and Davenport Lyons - What can we do as a group?

Postby MrFredPFL » Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:48 pm

bunnox223 wrote:no i just dont understand how they got are info?


whew - you had me worried for a minute ;)

as to the answer to that, i can only guess:

they got the info from the ISP, who is then either being evasive, or outrightly lying about it, when asked.

they are getting it through some underhanded method, outside of proper channels - e.g. they have a mole in the ISP who gives them info they are not entitled to.

i don't doubt there are other possible explanations - those are just the two that come to my mind right away.
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby psd123 » Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:55 pm

Hi,

As far as i can tell the info came from my ISP which is BT plusnet, as they have spelt my name incorrectly on the letter as my ISP do.

Cheers psd123
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby fraggerads » Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:06 pm

Lol just got my girl friend to ring them up and leave them a message on their answering machine. She has a very proper phone voice and is currently studying law. mwha mwha ha ha.

"Im just calling regarding the threatening letters you have been sending. Ive spoken to Bt and they have advised me that they have failed to get in contact with you. Ive also spoken to code masters and they have failed to get into contact with you. I would advise you to send letters of apology otherwise i will be seeking legal advice as to claims that i can pursue against you"

:lookup:
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby ritch1 » Mon Nov 26, 2007 5:58 pm

So you asked Codemasters about it, didnt they acknowledge knowing about these letters?

Interesting, let us know if they come back with anything!!!
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby spagyi » Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:22 pm

Well, I am sure they got our details from the ISP somehow. As we received a copy which has been sent to the ISP, you can see , they want to take the isp to court as well if they fail to provide the details.
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby spagyi » Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:35 pm

Ehh, this is from a diferent forum, someone called DL:

" 22 Nov 24, 2007 at 11:31 by XY

i phoned them told them i could not pay they gave me six month 2 pay what that 85 a month"
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby Captain America » Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:20 pm

Using letter here as a reference: http://kepfeltoltes.hu/view/071124/firs ... es.hu_.jpg

The general grammar on this entire letter sounds completely off to be done by a professional. One of the lines is "Our client has retained forensic computer analysts to search for and identify internet addresses......"

There should be a , between the words forensic, computer, analysts (and I'm pretty sure there needs to be a ; after the word analysts). A mistake a professional, letter-writer, would not make.

This is questionable writing and grammar (Again I doubt a professional would make such mistakes).

"We enclose the following documents which were used to ascertain that you were the person responsible for the internet connection used at the date and time:-"

We enclose the following documents is all present/current tense. NO ONE speaks this way. It should read We have enclosed the following documents."


Also noting that the Davenport Lyons logo is not colorized like it is on their site (blue and dark blue). Now I can't tell if this is just the way it was scanned or what......
I am pointing out these grammatical errors, because I believe a professional would not make such mistakes. As others have mentioned numerous times before, I could photoshop a more professional looking and sounding letter in 10 minutes or less.
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby MrFredPFL » Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:30 pm

sorry, cap'n - but as a person who does proofreading on a professional basis, i must (respectfully) totally disagree with you. the commas you refer to in the first sentence should NOT exist, nor should the semicolon. the second sentence, while i can see where someone might consider it odd, is NOT wording that "NO ONE would use." firstly, that usage is not that unusual, and secondly, even if you insist that it is, it could have been something as simple as a dropped "d".

speaking in my official role as slyck spelling and grammar nazi, i am sorry, but i must repeat: the two sentences you have cited are, in my opinion, not proof of anything. the first sentence is absolutely correct as is, and the second sentence could be considered, at worst, a simple typo.
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby Captain America » Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:33 pm

Could you please explain the We enclose part to me. As I do not see how that could be used correctly at all. I may print out a page or two and take it to my ex English teacher (she could be Mrs.Nazi as she is just as bad :mrgreen:
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Postby MrFredPFL » Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:43 pm

personally, i have no problem with that usage. if i were to change it at all, i would change it to "we have enclosed" or "we are enclosing" - but it's the kind of thing i would look at, as a proofreader, and say to myself "well, i might not have worded it that way, but ok". but i don't see where it's a huge deal, and certainly i do not view it (present tense lol) as proof of anything. imo, that particular line is more an issue of style than anything.

if you want to split hairs on the tense, consider that at the point of writing the letter, nothing had yet been enclosed ;)
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby MrFredPFL » Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:47 pm

ps: just since we are on the subject, the first two sentences in your last post should, under no circumstances i am aware of, be two sentences.

it should be:

Could you please explain the We enclose part to me, as I do not see how that could be used correctly at all.

;)

for anyone interested in the finer nuances of composition, i always like to recommend strunk and white's Elements of Style.

if there's a more useful text on the subject, by all means share it with the class :)
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby Captain America » Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:47 pm

@MrFredPFL Image English king....

Well I can speak 1337 :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

We should probably get back on topic.
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby piXelatedEmpire » Mon Nov 26, 2007 8:06 pm

psd123 wrote:...and in the evidence section it also states 'Accordingly, although your computer may not have been used to carry out the action alleged, your internet connection may have been used. This might explain why there is no copy of the Work on your computer (assuming it has not been subsequently deleted)..'

Which basically means that they were able to get a part from my pc and have then tried to access my pc to see if the file is there, surely this must have broken some privacy laws by accessing my pc without my knowledge, which could also have been how the file or part of the file appeared on it?

No, this is not what it means at all. They have not tried to access you pc, they have simply attempted to download the game (and subsequently downloaded pieces of the file, probably using BitTorrent or the like) from someone whom offered it using your connection. There are no privacy laws being broken here (AFAIK), information such as IP adresses are available on all torrent clients. They have used the infringing IP address and tracked it to you.

Also, Davenport Lyons look to have obtained this information thru your ISP (associating your details with the infringing IP address). It appears to me as tho your ISP is in fact incorrectly informing you that they wouldn't give over this information (usually for a fee). I'd wait to hear from your ISPs legal department for confirmation.
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby stupidman » Mon Nov 26, 2007 8:26 pm

i just checked all my gumph. Why did they write to my isp, on the 25th june, asking for my info of my ip adress, when the so called alleged download didnt even happen till 7 days after, and 22 days after.

are they Mystic Lawyers Now!!!

they also state that it was released in july 2007, not on 15/6/2007 when it actually did release.

not that i am picking holes or anything :nopity:
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby enigmax » Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:28 am

Just keeping you guys informed. I'll hesitate to call it legal advice but we will have a very interesting piece ready for you all, probably first thing Wednesday. It will be very useful and lengthy and should give a few of the more worried people here a little bit of hope, I can promise you that.
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby bunnox223 » Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:16 am

yes m8 please do...


im not making any contact with them or sending any letters yet, is everyone else just hanging on or just me?
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby griz vegas » Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:38 am

got 9 counts of this letter and will be hanging out for a solution b4 replying
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby spagyi » Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:43 am

Any idea how many of us got these letters?
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby breathless_darkness » Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:20 am

I've been keeping an eye on this topic ever since I've received a letter myself. I emailed the Codemaster Customer Service yesterday and got a response this morning. They confirm that Davenport Lyons are working on the behalf of Codemasters.

Thank you for submitting your recent request to Codemasters Customer Services concerning DiRT.

This company is acting on our behalf. Please contact them concerning this issue.

If you need further assistance, please reply to this email and INCLUDE THIS LINE IN YOUR REPLY:-

Or include the entire text of this email.

Kind regards
Rob
Codemasters Customer Services


I was going to just ignore the letter but now it seems like it is a genuine claim, I'm unsure what to do.
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby ritch1 » Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:05 am

yeah its a bit worrying, they are legit, id still like to know about the ISP thing though and how they were able to get our contact details. Id also like to know if the multiple letters mean you have to pay multiple fines, if so i think thats got to be crazy, i mean 9 letters is going to amount to over £4500, how can that be right?

if the fine was a couple of hundred quid I would be tempted to pay and get these scumbags out of my hair but they are asking me for £2000, some people have got families to support especially this time of year, its a discusting amount to ask.

the only positive is they tried this a while ago and failed, maybe they upped their game a bit? Im hoping enigmax is going to shed some light on this cause I dont feel to good about it at the moment.
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby multivariable » Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:43 am

Anyone who replies to these correspondences in any way is being foolish in the extreme.
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby breathless_darkness » Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:46 pm

Well, I haven't replied but it's still worrisome. Codemaster is a much bigger company than of the Dream Pinball company and maybe Davenport have learn from their mistakes from that. I wouldn't think they would take everybody to court but what if they pick on a few to just make examples of.
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby bunnox223 » Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:33 pm

only time will tell,

it only applies to one of the letters so the amount you have to pay is off one of them not all.

has anyone on here payed it.
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby griz vegas » Tue Nov 27, 2007 6:05 pm

has anyone sought proper legal advice regarding these letters?
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Re: Just got a letter from Davenport Lyons RE-Colin Mcrae Dir

Postby bakker » Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:57 pm

Hello to Slyck


I received DL letters as well, 1 on saturday /seems the automation works still the same way as it worked in March- pinball 3D/ and 1 on monday - asking price 511, I'll scan all pages and upload them to some free server hopefully tomorrw.
I am not going to pay -no way , i've better things to do :wink:

Few facts i found useful but don't take em as correct as my english is still ehm,.. ... a bit bad :(

1. The way DL wrote - "we disclose"... this way we normally speak in my country and all around if you translate english sentences from english to hungarian or slovakian or czech or polish,all central europeans talks normally this way,i think in some part of england and in some area /maybe lawyers,studends for example/..

2. As it was mentioned few times - letters sent by standard mail - there is no proof we received them.

3. We are not responsible for someone else action.

4. All letters are just a photocopies

5. Copy of DL letters sent to ISPs to get our names are not signet at all

6. Someone who has an access could check who is the accound holder we were asked to send monies /in my corrupt country this would take me around 2 minutes to find this out,over here in UK i am useless in this field :(

Finally, don't pay,don't ring em,don't reply, no worries.
Will get back soon.
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