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legal action for downloading Dream Pinball (Davenport-Lyons)

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:17 pm
by spliffyelmo
Hi everyone at slyck forums

This is my first post and would like to ask for some advice. I have recieved a letter of claim from davenport lyons solicitors for downloading a game called dream pinball 3d from emule. They cite copying of the game on the hard drive covered sections 16(1)(a) and 17 of the copyright designs and patents act 1988 also making it available to third parties for downloading covered by sections 16(1)(d) and 20 of the act.

They ask for £350 damages to stop the case proceeding to court.

Obviously the tone of the letter is implying if it went to court i would be liable for thousands of pounds.

If anyone has any knowledge of this sort of case, and what would be my best option, because i am currently unemployed and do not have the money to pay the £350 damages.

Quite heavy for a first post :(

based in england

Thanks in advance

Darren.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:10 pm
by ShawnSpree
First of all things. Quit using emule. I googled them, they seem legit. They seem like their not asking for that much money and would probably take a payment plan if you opted in doing so. Otherwise i seen these or people like them before. They will scare you, and they would NEVER take your ass to court unless their is away to make you pay. Lein against a home? Judgment? Garnish any wages? Since you dont have a job, and probably live with your parents or friends. I Say fight it. You can at anytime tell them that no such thing resides on your pc, and that you investigated the matter and found no such evidence on your pc. People like these wont want to take you to court, takes them forever to get their money, and they want the money fast. Find out about your countries laws on what they can and can't do. You be amazed how much the law is on your side.

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 2:43 am
by IceCube
ShawnSpree wrote:First of all things. Quit using emule.


Correction: Quit using eMule for those 'too hot to touch' files. Otherwise, there's nothing wrong with using eMule. Make sure you've taken steps to avoid a fake server (which, as a general rule, isn't very hard) :roll:

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 3:38 am
by a44
I say fight it. But if you got no $$$, then you got no choice. Just remember, if you settle, it will fuel their cause. More people will get sued.

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 4:22 am
by cinek
if you wanna use emule - use ipfilters

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 4:24 am
by a44
Yea, an IPfilter is a very good suggestion, but it's a bit too late now isn't it :wink:

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 4:53 am
by qm2003
Get legal advise from a lawyer with online and copyright experience.

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 5:20 am
by IceCube
I'm sure he'd love to find one for free. I think a lot of people would like suggestions to find lawyers who are willing to look beyond the legal costs of fighting in Britain at least. No offence of course.

PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:20 pm
by ShawnSpree
Shouldnt be involved in a network where you have to avoid fake files, riaa, mpaa, bsa companies. You should be able to download what you want, when you want without any threat. Since he's on emule, chances are he wont go for the rare free and unheard of stuff. Sucks you got busted over a pinball game.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 12:41 am
by KingGeorge
Report the email to your isp as a phishing scam first off, if you do reply to their email tell them they have been reported to your isp as phishers and to the online fraud dept of the F.BI. or whatever they call it there as a nigerian 419 scam. Replying could be a bad idea but if you do say something like this " Hello I will not fall for your nigerian scam I watch dateline I know how you scamers work. I have reported you to my isp and the F.B.I. I know some people might fall for your scam but I won't no such files as you state exist on my pc and never have. You are trying to con me into paying you money using a well known scam and I am no moogle." Now run out and buy a wireless router for $50 and set up a open wifi network or a halfass secured one using default passwords. If they do have evidence just claim that your network gets hacked often since you don't know much about how your router's security works.

Re: legal action for downloading

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:48 am
by ejonesss
spliffyelmo wrote:Hi everyone at slyck forums

This is my first post and would like to ask for some advice. I have recieved a letter of claim from davenport lyons solicitors for downloading a game called dream pinball 3d from emule. They cite copying of the game on the hard drive covered sections 16(1)(a) and 17 of the copyright designs and patents act 1988 also making it available to third parties for downloading covered by sections 16(1)(d) and 20 of the act.

They ask for £350 damages to stop the case proceeding to court.

Obviously the tone of the letter is implying if it went to court i would be liable for thousands of pounds.

If anyone has any knowledge of this sort of case, and what would be my best option, because i am currently unemployed and do not have the money to pay the £350 damages.

Quite heavy for a first post :(

based in england

Thanks in advance

Darren.


it is abuse of the dmca extortion.

they want to make money. (just like the phishing scams do to ebay and paypal)

just refuse to pay them and wait for them to actually launch a court session.

i am willing to bet they dont have the courage to go to court.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:37 am
by Nutty-Slack
Looks to me as though "Davenport Lyons" are glorified debt collectors.
The kind that send out those "put the shits up you" motivational intial legal letters for companies who are trying to hammer unpaid debts out of destitute single-parent families in council houses.
The majority of the £350 will be fees and costs is my guess.

Assuming that you've been sent a letter through the post on which you are named and addressed properly - that you've downloaded what you've been accused of, and on the afore mentioned specific network (emule) - you have to assume that they could only have acquired your personal information from your ISP via legal precedence.

Ignoring it or waiting would be unwise.
£350 isn't a lot in any legal situation, believe me.
That amount will start to rocket if it goes any further.
I've taken good-intentioned advice to "fight" a couple of pretty minor issues in court before but it was a complete farce and ended up costing me mucho moola.
The courts' general contempt of the common man and the kind of pompous, self-righteous perverts that pass themselves off as judges means that these 'proceedings' are pretty much on rails from start to end.
In my experience anyway.....

Your best bet (while you have time) is to see if you can get some kind of free intial consultation with a decent firm of solicitors that have experience dealing with these kinds of issues.
You don't really have much of a case, but a solicitor is about the only person who can tell you with authority how you stand.

Your local citizen's advice bureau can be excellent for things like this, although they can also be very hard to get appointments with at short notice.

And.... contact your ISP and find out if they've supplied your details to anyone and the full circumstances.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 4:32 pm
by PorkyPig
I got one of the same letters, after a quick perusal I threw it in the bin. Same file, same demand for £350.00. I honestly cant remember downloading that one, I use emule and was using IP filters in emule as well as Peer Guardian which is pretty much up to date, also running the Lavasoft Firewall,didn't do much good did it. There are 3 PC's sharing my connection similarly 'protected'

One thing I remember from the letter is that my ISP Freedom 2 Surf charged them £50.00 for divulging my details, soon to be my ex ISP as soon as I select another one, any suggestions anyone?

I'm confused that as there are 3 users of my broadband connection how I can be singled out as I am the account payer for legal action. There is no proof I personally downloaded this file. This more or less amounts to demanding money with menaces, with little chance of success in opposing it, a new way for the legal profession to stuff the little man, I guess they'll all be at it soon, it's too good an opportunity for some easy money.

Their next letter will be going straight in the bin also, I really hate intimidation.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 3:36 pm
by heavy user
Guys i got one of those letters 2, only mine is for £307, meaning my isp only charged £7 to give away my details, there must be a lot of this letters being sent, should i pay?

PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 3:47 pm
by Fartingbob
IceCube wrote:Correction: Quit using eMule for those 'too hot to touch' files.

I dunno, last time i checked "dream pinball 3D" wasnt exactly the hottest thing on the interwebs. I can understand avoiding things like vista on emule, but if you stay away from everything down to small pinball games, there wont be a huge amount left apart from porn.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 3:49 pm
by GraphiX
if your in the uk then your kinda safe because there is no law what so ever to stop you downloading copyrighted files or contents it's the uploading they have you for.

so if you NEVER uploaded or distrubuted any files then so what you "Downloaded it" my isp gets millions of emails and letters a week and they just bin them.

as according to the CDUP/my isp ntl/telewest/bt internet providers there is no law about "Downloading"

so once again if you didn't re-upload or share the content you downloaded your in the clear.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 3:56 pm
by heavy user
thanks GraphiX, unfortunately i was uploading 2 and that's why they are blaming me it was in emule, do u think they will take me to court if i don't pay? i read about that guy that had to pay £3500 in court, i would love not to pay but i rather pay £300 than thousands, i really don't know what to do

PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 4:23 pm
by klondike
i am surprised that the isp hasn't informed you that they are releasing your details to a third party.What if that third party is a scammer and not the genuine aggrieved party.This doesn't sound right.Get in touch with your ISP and find out who they have been talking to and why they haven't informed you.Then get legal advice and ask the solicitor to check out if the ISP has been in breach of the data protection act.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 4:25 pm
by sam2142
Hi All,

This is my first post also so pls be nice :-)


i today also got a letter from the law firm Davenport Lyons.

they want £600 from me unlike the 350 from the rest of you.

they said i d/l and u/l the file on the date of 26./9/06 last year

and want to me to pay b4 the 14th

what dates were you all sent the letter and when did they say you d/l u// the file?

Also whats the next action are you talking now?

i have never heard of this game or think i would even d/l and share it tbh as just been to the dream pinball 3D site and it seems that its not the game i would play either. But i guess it must somehow maybe been d/l since they say they have "proof"

So what is this proof and where can i request to see it?

thanks for any help

Sam

PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 4:37 pm
by Fartingbob
We havent all been suied, just spliffyelmo.
I would suggest that if you honestly havnt downloaded the game, check with anyone else who would use the same net connection if they did.
I would suggest in your case you write back to them immediately saying you would like to see some proof since you did not knowingly download it. If they have no proof that would stand up in court (an IP address isnt enough) they will likely either drop the case or just not do anything, hoping you'll still pay up but if not they just move on.

As for spliffyelmo who did download, then the situation is more tricky. I would seek (free) legal advice. Theres plenty of consumer rights or advice organisations that may be able to help more.
If you have the stamina for it, i would suggest fighting the case. This isnt a mega corporation your fighting here, so their legal budget isnt going to be big and the thought of a lengthy court case will scare them as much as it does you.

I really have to jazz up my posts, you guys put me too shame

PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 5:16 pm
by PorkyPig
Hi You Lot

Well after giving some thought, I still cant bring myself to humour these bastards, I'm not sure how they got my details but a German Time Zone was mentioned, I really must curtail my temper before throwing things in the bin, anyway been on the phone tonight to get my MAC code from Freedom 2 Surf. here's a sample of the email, no doubt easily traced to me but past caring...


You have been sent this email because you have enquired about receiving
a MAC number for your ADSL Service.


Please can you answer the following feedback to assist us in understanding
the reason for your migration:

Please place an `x` next to the appropriate answers

1. Reason for migration:

a. Price Too High
b. Require Product not offered by freedom2surf
c. Unhappy with Customer Service
d. Unhappy with Technical Support
e. Other: please provide details: X

You divulged my details to a 3rd party contrary to the data protection act and made yourself an extra £50.00 in the bargain, I am now being sued for copyright breach, thanks for nothing. For your information there are 3 PC's that share my connection permanently plus a laptop that comes and goes and the odd PDA. At least half a dozen people use my connection regularly. I am quite happy for them to do so, apparently I am responsible for them also, maybe I should give out their details and make some money, no I really couldn't sink that low, I'll leave that to people like you, I'm informed you are also doing regular port scans on me, don't know what that means but don't care right now, just give me my MAC code so I can get shot of you.

2. Which service provider are you planning on migrating to? Don't know yet, no business of yours anyway
3. If there was anything we could do to retain you as a customer, what
would it be? You could try putting the interests of your customers first, oops too late!
We aim to issue all MAC numbers within 5 working days from the receipt of
your reply. Good, the sooner the better

Kind Regards,

Freedom2Surf Sales
Pipex Business Services

My thoughts are as soon as you pay up for this one another will be in the post, it's a sad state of affairs where real thieves feeding their drug habit can get on the spot fines of £80.00 for an average £150.00 theft shoplifting (UK Retailers Info) but little Jimmy downloading Now 62 will get his parents stuffed for thousands. The 'Entertainment Industry' having bought off the judges and politicians, first in the USA now in the UK apparently.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 5:56 pm
by Wham
I'm not a lawyer but I will tell you this. If you get a letter telling you that you will be sued, you do not want to answere the letter, unless you are a lawyer. What they are after is discovery. They don't tell you all that they got, why the hell should you tell them anything. Always seek a lawyers advice if you aren't a lawyer yourself. If you must send them a letter, just tell them that you received their letter. Personally, I wouldn't tell them jack shit. If you get a supena, you are actually being sued and you definately want a lawyer to advise. Deny everything.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:47 am
by AlexanderHanff
Don't pay them. Under British Law if they take you to court they will be awarded much less if anything due to your financial circumstances. In the UK any judgement made for financial damages is made in line with your income. It is not permitted for a judgement to effect your basic living standards. Any award of damages must still allow you to have enough money to live on including food, bill payments and debts, clothing, accomodation, and even entertainment/leisure within reason. Once all those costs of living are tallied up, then and only then can any damages be calculated. Given that you are unemployed it is unlikely that you will be forced to pay them anything but even if you are, it will be at the most a couple of £s per week.

So don't worry about it, their hints that it would cost you much more if it went to court are nothing more than scare tactics and in fact are illegal. It is called Monies by Menace (racketeering in the US) and is viewed very poorly by the courts. So just totally ignore them and if they do take you to court (which I highly doubt) simply explain your financial circumstances on the financial assessment form you will have to fill in. Make sure you include absolutely everything, even the travel costs to go and sign on every 2 weeks, catalog payments, tv license, car insurance (if you have one), house insurance etc.

Hope that helps.

Alex

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:23 am
by spliffyelmo
hi everyone

i do apologise for not replying sooner. Hell of a time at the moment sorting out family business, without having to sort out this davenport lyons sueing crap.

Just to bring you update, the last day to respond to their request for payment was yesterday. Because of other commitments i did not have enough time to respond so my dad phoned them and said i am currently away at the moment and would not be back till the later part of next week and he has not been able to contact me and when i am back he would inform of the letter. Which gives me a bit more time to organise things i have an appointment with the citizen advice bureau and also organising a meeting with a solicitor.

I am planning to go down the route of denial, so the ball is in their court so to speak.

Anyway thanks for replys and hope you other guys who are getting threatening letters get the right result that you want.

Cheers

Dal.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:55 am
by enigmax
Please be aware that if other users of your home network (especially if someone has hopped onto your wireless network without your knowledge) have done anything illegal, you cannot possibly know about it unless you were looking over their shoulder at the time, which you were not.

Neither you, nor the people sueing you have any idea who was at the computer at the time of the alleged infringement. I can't see how it can progress against you from there.