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legal action for downloading Dream Pinball (Davenport-Lyons)

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I've received a letter, what should I do? and Davenport Lyons - What can we do as a group?

Postby enigmax » Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:16 am

Cor Blimey wrote:Hello
For those who think that it is a scam or not legit, try a search, also read this ->

A top law firm has told MCV that any profits made from importing PS3s could prove insignificant compared to the huge legal costs if Sony were to throw the book at unscrupulous importers.
Mitra Pahlabod of Davenport Lyons has warned that without a legal leg to stand on, anyone selling US or Japanese PS3s over here is taking a huge risk in defying the might of Sony.

True. Importing from the Japan or the US may cause difficulties.

As far as importers of PS3s are concerned, they should bear in mind that any profit they may make from importing the consoles into Europe without Sony’s consent this Christmas may well be short lived,

Notice the different wording in comparison with the reference to the US and Japan. There is nothing illegal about importing consoles from a country within the EU into the UK. All you have to do is make sure that when power adaptors and cables to connect the console to the TV are replaced with UK compatible ones, the fact that these components are added by the importer should be clearly labelled on the box. If you simply exchange them for replacements (like UK supermarket TESCO did), you'll fall foul of Sony because they will sue you for trademark infringement.
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Postby hipraptor » Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:26 am

WarezNewz

Ok, I cam on here because my wife got the letter mentioned from davenport, I signed up on to this forum because someone in a local newsgroup pointed me to this thread, I cannot speak for other but my contributions are authentic and I am seeking help by posting elsewhere also as well as here.

I am for one not ignoring any advise given from all the sources I am asking for help, so get yer facts right, also I am not trying to scare anyone here, I am just posting about the fact that Davenport Lyons are trying to make out that we ahve shared and downloaded the game they call dream pinball by this firm called topware.

Therefore get yer facts right, but coughing up some drival.

As for Cor Blimey, I think before you pay up, you should at least ask them to supply more proof then just the intial letter they sent you even if believe they have a case against you.
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Postby hipraptor » Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:29 am

I do not understand this Sony thing, I know companies import cars into the UK and I think that is legal, so hwo come its not legal to import a PS3, sorry for sounding thick on this matter and also is Davenport Lyons stirring it with Sony?
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Postby lifes2short4shit » Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:31 am

Hi Hiptraptor
Do a serach on google groups for Topware Davenport and you will find a legal forum all about this.

Would have posted the link but wasnt allowed.
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Postby enigmax » Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:58 am

Here's the thread

A couple of interesting things there in letters from Davenport Lyons

'it is common' knowledge now that a wireless network needs to be secured so that unauthorized third parties may not have access to your network and carry out illegal activities

I don't believe that it is common knowledge at all. To support this, finding open and unsecured networks in the vicinity of the court should be easy. For your reference, I could gain access to 5 in my immediate vicinity here, should I wish.

here has already been a ruling in the German courts confirming that a wireless network is the responsibility of it owner and any consequences of failing to secure the network fall upon the owner of it, irrespective of who carried out the illegal activity

So? This is not Germany

We are of the view that the UK courts would take the same position

Ok, well let's find out then shall we? If Davenport Lyons wants a test case for the sake of £350, thats cool. Especially if they lose - the implications would be far-reaching.

'We reject your settlement offer as inadequate bearing in mind the loss our client has suffered and the legal costs involved, to which it does not bear any relation'

Interesting. Seems to me that the only possible loss they could've possibly documented is the uploading of one game, once. That sounds like a very small financial loss to me.

I'm starting to wish that I had been wrongfully accused of this. I have a real appetite for fighting this kind of crap.
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Re: too easy

Postby Mac » Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:45 am

As with you Enigmax, I think some people are willing to give up to easily.

I don't know who "Cor Blimey" is - but in my opinion you've either actually downloaded the game? Or you must be working for Davenport Lyons and/or their clients?? In any case, the Sony case has no merit, as far as import goes. Grey import of Sony broadcast products has been going on for the last 30 years+, and all the dealer has to fear is not to be an authorized Sony dealer & ensure that their customers gets the 12 month warranty. There might be an issue with advertising the product and using Sony logo's etc. - but that can't stop anyone importing the box - the same goes for Levis jeans, cosmetics etc.

However, "Cor Blimey" you're are trying to set Davenport Lyons up as experts in this field + you're going to pay them without seeing any evidence - this does give me some concerns about who you really are....?

I've told my friend who got the letter to be ready to go to court - unless they have a picture of you playing/up & downloading the game + financial information that you've made profit from this, they are going to be wasting their time and money in the UK High Court. And even if they win - if you've got nothing, you can give them nothing...

However, if you actually have illegally downloaded the game and distributed it, I can only suggest that pay them as fast as possible and put this down to experience - which is one not to repeat.
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Re: too easy

Postby LD50% » Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:50 am

Mac wrote:As with you Enigmax, I think some people are willing to give up to easily.

I don't know who "Cor Blimey" is - but in my opinion you've either actually downloaded the game? Or you must be working for Davenport Lyons and/or their clients?? In any case, the Sony case has no merit, as far as import goes. Grey import of Sony broadcast products has been going on for the last 30 years+, and all the dealer has to fear is not to be an authorized Sony dealer & ensure that their customers gets the 12 month warranty. There might be an issue with advertising the product and using Sony logo's etc. - but that can't stop anyone importing the box - the same goes for Levis jeans, cosmetics etc.

However, "Cor Blimey" you're are trying to set Davenport Lyons up as experts in this field + you're going to pay them without seeing any evidence - this does give me some concerns about who you really are....?

I've told my friend who got the letter to be ready to go to court - unless they have a picture of you playing/up & downloading the game + financial information that you've made profit from this, they are going to be wasting their time and money in the UK High Court. And even if they win - if you've got nothing, you can give them nothing...

However, if you actually have illegally downloaded the game and distributed it, I can only suggest that pay them as fast as possible and put this down to experience - which is one not to repeat.


Huh?
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Postby monkeynoises » Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:04 pm

I too received one of these letters from Davenport Lyons on Saturday, referring to an IP address and a date last year that I am supposed to have got it.

I feel agrieved that they are trying to con me out of £349 (£49 for fee to ISP...ntl of course) for something I've never had, and using threats and scare tactics.

Haven't even heard of this Pinball game before.

What progress are other people making on this issue?
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Postby hipraptor » Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:26 pm

Posted a 2nd letter today, they should get it Monday, in this second letter I have told them we will not pay up and have also asked them proof as i do not think anyone has yet seen any.
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Postby Dynasty » Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:15 pm

i got one of these letters on friday asking for £350 within 14days..

saying Virgin-Media (formally known as NTL) had been taken to court aswell charged to give my personal info out.

virgin told me theres no records of this on the account also they said they would contact us direct and tell us to stop basically not send no letters through the post asking for money etc

seems abit odd as you can't phone them up and the only payment method they ask for is cheque, credit card and ban transfer which imo is very suspicious...

so to me it all seems a big con but a very good one ill tell you more once virgin get back in touch with me :)
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Postby MrFredPFL » Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:23 pm

interesting. welcome to slyck, dynasty, and thanks for that info. i'll be curious to hear what more virgin has to say about this.
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Postby Dynasty » Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:27 pm

MrFredPFL wrote:interesting. welcome to slyck, dynasty, and thanks for that info. i'll be curious to hear what more virgin has to say about this.


thx for the welcome :)

if it is indeed a con then i have to say its a very convincing one.. plus if it is then ill be phoning watchdog (program here in the uk) :)
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Postby JonBoy07 » Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:44 pm

Hi all,

I'm new to Slyck.

Dynasty, I have had the same. Spoke to Virgin (formally NTL) to see if any information under the data protection act had been given out to 3rd parties. Answer was no.....nothing on the account to show this what so ever.

I tried to call Davenport Lyons to request more evidence, unfortunatly I missed the dept. by 10 mins of them leaving, will try again tommmorow.

I to will be very interested in what Virgin has to say to Dynasty.
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Postby MrFredPFL » Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:06 pm

welcome, jonboy - and wow. this just keeps getting more and more interesting.
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Postby GraphiX » Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:25 pm

ok this is crazy reading this post i thought it would of been burried by now but it's not.

what is so damn interesting about this pinball game?
and how are they trying to say you owe em £350 in damages lol how much is the game to buy???

All this fuss over some stupid spec on the radar game?
i mean it's not a top brand game it's not one that i've ever heard of or seen advertised anywhere at any time.

i'd contact the company bitching about fairuse rights
and tell them you bought the game on a cd, it was scratched the game you paid for legally you own but you couldn't get a replacement so since you own a licence to use the game/media (not the distrobution method i.e the cd/dvd disc) but the actual content.

it doesn't matter how you obtain it you got a licence for it plain and simple cds/dvd's dont last forever unlike these people think they are not indistructable by any means and the slightest lil scratch they stop working so what other options did you have but to find a digital copy?

Also to add whats saying you didn't know it wasn't shareware/trialware the http demo download was too slow so you wasn't aware the version on p2p was any different than the official http one.

play dumb just like the industry treats us all and thinks were all as dumb as a box of rocks well play to their tune
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Postby Nutty-Slack » Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:41 pm

All sounds extremely fishy to me (good call WarezNewz).
The only way that those 'solicitors' can identify the protagonists on this thread is via their ISP's records and a court order, which they wouldn't have a hope in hell of obtaining on the grounds of people downloading a piece of software.
It's illegal for an ISP to divulge information without a court order.

Of course, Virgin could be lying to the people who had the sense to contact them and enquire, or there could be an insider (illegally) providing information? :roll:

Who are Davenport Lyons representing here?
What is the downloaded/uploaded material in question?
Is it always the same media?
Which network or service were you using? (Bittorrent, Limewire etc.)

Let's have some actual useful information.
Last edited by Nutty-Slack on Mon Mar 26, 2007 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby MrFredPFL » Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:46 pm

"dream pinball 3d" has been named several times in this thread ;)
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Postby Nutty-Slack » Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:59 pm

Thanks Fred. :)
I'm just saying to potential posters that they need to unify on facts, ie. state what they downloaded, their ISP etc.
Otherwise they'll never get to the bottom of this rather ethereal issue.

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Postby LD50% » Mon Mar 26, 2007 3:06 pm

Hmmm...


1.
Commission a game.

2.
Copyright it.

3.
Release on p2p networks.

4.
Instruct dodgy law firm to extort money from the unwitting..

Hmmm...
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Postby enigmax » Mon Mar 26, 2007 3:17 pm

Right gentlemen.

There are 19 pages of posts here with people having the same problem. Please read and report back ;)

http://www.legalbanter.co.uk/uk-legal-legal-issues-uk/35693-letter-claim-p2p.html
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Postby LD50% » Mon Mar 26, 2007 3:22 pm

Ok this looks very very suspect!

From their website...

About Us

Established over 60 years ago, we are a commercially focused law firm acting for businesses and entrepreneurial clients .....blabla.


And then..



Now look here at the company records, pay particular attention to the tax earnings and set-up dates!



And then to top it off.....

New York Office -
Address 41 Madison Avenue,
34th Floor,
New York,
NY 10010
Tel: +(212) 974-7474
Fax +(212) 974-8474


From company house records....

Oversea Company Info
There are no Oversea Details associated with this company.


Huh?
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Postby Nutty-Slack » Mon Mar 26, 2007 3:42 pm

Whereas "Topware Interactive" (publishers of "Dream Pinball", and other such crap) are based in Las Vegas, USA.

If these claims originate from that one publisher, why are they supposedly only pursuing a handful of people using Virgin's cable network in the UK (that we know of)?
It's preposterous.

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Postby JonBoy07 » Mon Mar 26, 2007 3:58 pm

Does anybody use another ISP apart from Virgin and have had confirmation of no requests for personal information?
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Postby GraphiX » Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:42 pm

even more interesting every single person posting about this topware pinball game is on UK isp's

there is not 1 single person on any forum who's stating any overseas ISP's what is more weird how can a usa company be targeting only UK people lol isn't that a bit backward to go after the UK people with totally different Copyright laws and rules as that of the usa.

what makes it more suspicious what is the deal with like 2000 people all downloading this pinball game lol
out of the millions and millions of top popular games and movies and music out there on the p2p networks everyone seemed to find the 1 needle in the 30 haystacks all at the same time.

is this a new eppisode of heroes lol ?
we all have the ability to find the exact same file at the exact same time at the exact same date?

wow...

whats even more funny over at that site you posted about the p2p legalbanter it took 19 pages before someone had the comonsense bright spark idea to actually phone their isp and find out if it's true they've sold your content details to a 3rd party.
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Postby LurkinHawk » Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:41 pm

Actually, the story gets better and better.

Topware doesn't produce or sell the game.

If you check out Topware's site, you'll find they only Review/Preview the game with a minimal bit of information (system requirements/data sheet/features). They show it as a 'Project'.

Developers are ASK Homework, located in Hungary.

To find the game price, you have to follow a link which takes you to a pretty, albeit noisy, flash homepage for dream pinball. Poking around a bit you finally get to download or order.

Clicking 'Order' takes you to the online store, which is, interestingly enough, based in Europe (Karlsruhe, Germany) ... ZuXXez Entertainment AG, which claims to be the game's 'producer'.

Game price is 24.99 Euro.

Is this why German law is referenced?
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