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Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:38 am
by hipraptor
Just a thought of the next 25,000 people DL say they are going to hassle next, surley sooner or later some judge or soemone else is going to get fed up of DL and stop them in their tracks?

Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:56 am
by Meek
hipraptor wrote:Just a thought of the next 25,000 people DL say they are going to hassle next, surley sooner or later some judge or soemone else is going to get fed up of DL and stop them in their tracks?


We would hope :?

Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:06 pm
by jamk

Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:15 pm
by unhappy
So how did DL / courts know that the woman shared files with her friends if no correspondance had been entered into and she didn't appear at the court hearings ?

Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:42 pm
by MrFredPFL
what makes you sure DL actually knew any such thing? this story has already featured many inaccurate statements.

Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:47 pm
by Paladwyn
MrFredPFL wrote:what makes you sure DL actually knew any such thing? this story has already featured many inaccurate statements.


Agreed...can't really speculate on too much, since so much false information is being thrown about.

Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:00 pm
by stonecold316
would she have had to sign for the court summons? surely DL couldnt just send it in the normal post what if it got lost she may not have even known she was being summoned.

Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:33 pm
by Paladwyn
stonecold316 wrote:would she have had to sign for the court summons? surely DL couldnt just send it in the normal post what if it got lost she may not have even known she was being summoned.


That's the whole point with a default judgement...did she know, or did she just ignore? In US and Canada, you very well know you are being served, they can't proceed unless the person knows about it. In which case a default judgement would be against the person who merely didn't show up due to ignoring it.

In the UK, this process could very well be different.

Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:38 pm
by geoffro
stonecold316 wrote:would she have had to sign for the court summons? surely DL couldnt just send it in the normal post what if it got lost she may not have even known she was being summoned.


I challenged DL on this issue here is their reply

"We are under no obligation to send correspondence by recorded delivery. To do so would increase the administrative costs of this firm, which would need to be passed on to persons such as yourselves. It is in fact standard for law firms to send all mail by first class post..."

True? probably not

Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:45 pm
by stonecold316
so it could be that the first she knows about it is when she hears her name on the news.

Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:51 pm
by geoffro
Looks that way, not sure of the "in's & out's" though.

Just found this piece of info on a PDF file but cannot locate it's origin. I believe it's a UK site though

"....where a person or company acts as a “mere conduit” of information, and is essentially just a
host for electronic data, then although they are theoretically infringing copyright (through caching data) a
defence is available to them as a “host” of the data..."

Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:57 pm
by MrFredPFL
geoffro wrote:
stonecold316 wrote:would she have had to sign for the court summons? surely DL couldnt just send it in the normal post what if it got lost she may not have even known she was being summoned.


I challenged DL on this issue here is their reply

"We are under no obligation to send correspondence by recorded delivery. To do so would increase the administrative costs of this firm, which would need to be passed on to persons such as yourselves. It is in fact standard for law firms to send all mail by first class post..."

True? probably not


it might be true, but that's neither here nor there. all that refers to is their pre-trial correspondence. it does not mean that is considered a legal method of notifying you of an actual court case.

stonecold316 wrote:so it could be that the first she knows about it is when she hears her name on the news.


i won't outrightly say no, but it's unlikely. what DL refers to as being sent by first-class mail is NOT an official court summons, which must be served before a default judgement can be entered. in order to have a default judgement issued against you, you must first have been properly notified about the pending case. DL sending letters saying "oooo, we're gonna get you" is NOT a court summons.

Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:20 pm
by Paladwyn
Yes...as Fred says...

An official summons is NOT one of the "pay us now or suffer our wrath!!!"
It is an entirely different document that I'm sure will have to be sent 1st class mail, or hand delivered...but the laws in UK may be different. It's a rare case the person didn't know they were being served...most of the time it is from them completely ignoring it.

Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:29 pm
by PorkyPig
You do have to be served to be sued, and then you have to acknowledge the court, if you ignore them you WILL lose the case on default, so whatever else you do, TURN UP!

DL has made massive PR on this press release, the fact that the press releases contain screenshots of the ultra cheap crap dream pinball 3d confirms to me that DL are the prime source of this article.
A cynic would doubt that someone would contest an accusation and admit guilt at the same time, plus the various comments by neighbours, plus admissions of downloading to distribute among friends, it just doesn't have the ring of truth.

Also, this person could be in DL's employ in order to create the fear and uncertainty that has definitely been created among the accused community, the latest comments on slyck forums confirm this.
In reality, a law firm, chasing unemployed people would be out of pocket really quickly, this IS a PR exercise and nothing more, the thousands of others DL are now apparently pursuing will be probably more intimidated with this court ruling and pay up.

DL and Topware (the scumbag company originally behind this crap) literally have thousands of IP addresses hoovered up from the internet by Logisteps already discredited software and will be accusing loads of innocent people real soon!
As their activities are being increasingly curtailed in Europe, the UK is fast becoming these parasites prime source of income, I very much doubt that any UK MP will contest this abuse of civil law as I’m sure that palms have been greased and the odd brown envelope disappears into the back pockets of the judiciary.

On a plus note, at least the comments in the press forums reveal that almost all the general public are amazed and disgusted at this award and a few civil / human rights groups are investigating, a lot of people weren’t aware of DL and their tactics, now they are,

In the words of Bruce Springsteen...

Let Freedom Ring..

Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 4:07 pm
by dream pinball 3d lol
well if its of any use,my friend admitted to having 3d pinball at the onset of the original pinball letters,she had all the usual intimidating letters saying it might be on someone elses hard drive and could have been done from outside her home by some hacking etc, all this after telling them that her dissabled son may have done it by accident which on reflection is very unlikely,however they offered no request for proof of her sons limitations or dissabilities,VERY CIVIL she had requested evidence regards the pinball game stating that there would be no more response unless this was recieved,of course there evidence pack arrived and on good sound legal advice she was told not to respond any futher,she and legal advisers are very confident that they can defend this action,the point im trying to make is if this was all cut and dry as they say then this instance should be one of the first to reach court

Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 4:17 pm
by Alisha
Very interesting lol. Not heard this before. So did your friend send the proof to DL saying her son was disabled??
That comma buttons popped back on your keyboard I see!! And the full stop one seems to have vanished again!!! Ha ha ha!! :lol:

Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 4:29 pm
by dream pinball 3d lol
well you would expect them to request that evidence in that respect being a civil case but the reply was you did it or if your son did it then you pay it was done on your line no request or sorry but can you please elaborate or anything just pay up she did panic at first but she has plenty of support without going into to much?
there you go no commas pmsl

Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 5:41 pm
by unhappy
A few facts (possibly?)
DL picked 6 random non-repliers to go to court with
DL said that 200 out of the 500 paid up, leaving 300 non-payers (although the number may be less now)
DL said they were preparing court proceedings against 100 of the non-payers (i.e 1 in 3 of us) yet everyone got letters saying this, unless we constitute part of the 100.
It has been 17 months now since the original letters were sent out
DL have said that the pinball cases were a trial for future proceedings for other games publishers

Only 4 of the 6 have had default judgements - what about the other 2 ? I wonder if the other 2 declared their intention to fight and so were dropped ?
Why wait 17 months before starting court appearances.

In my opinion DL are going through various phases of their grand plan with the sole intent to pressure as many people into paying and that's all:

Phase 1 - a few rounds of intimidating letters saying pay up or else. This got 40% success after about the 3rd round.
Phase 2 - notify intent to start court proceedings. This probally got a few percent more to pay
Phase 3 - pick 6 random non-repliers and try and get default judgments. Ensure plenty of publicity. This probablly got a few more to pay.

It is feasible that now DL have their victory they may go for mass court proceedings but I would say this is an unlikely phase 4 as it would be a huge cost and risk, bearing in mind that this recent case cost £10,000 - you are looking at £1million pounds to do 100 cases at once.

Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball (Davenport-Lyons)

PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:39 pm
by MrFredPFL
in an effort to help avoid confusion and multiple posting, we have locked this and the other long thread about this situation, in order to try to concentrate the discussion in a single thread from now on. with this in mind, please continue the discussion here:

The new official Davenport-Lyons lawsuit thread