Slyck.com
 
Slyck Chatbox - And More

legal action for downloading Dream Pinball (Davenport-Lyons)

For discussion of the threatened legal action surrounding the alleged filesharing of pornography, computer games and music. (Golden Eye Int LTD / GEIL / MIRCOM / TCYK)
Forum rules
PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING: Slyck Forum Rules

Welcome to this forum, should you have received a letter do not panic, read the threads and make a (hopefully more informed) decision on how you want to proceed.

To avoid repeating previous posts, please familiarise yourself with the following information before posting.

Summary site (BeingThreatened.com) and Chat (IRC) or Chat (WebClient)

Speculative invoicing and “pay up or else” schemes for copyright infringement - Citizen's Advice Bureau

Speculative Invoicing Handbook

I've received a letter, what should I do? and Davenport Lyons - What can we do as a group?

Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby tomos » Tue Aug 12, 2008 11:52 am

Yep its probability...

You need to show you DID not download that software, dont play games etc... Now if you are an old fart like me ..
Who rearly DID NOT download that game ... I dont play computer games. I am in my mid 40,s with 2 very young children etc... If they want to look at your PC,s and you have nothing to hide, then let them... even offer it in a letter...


Tomos
tomos
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 12:22 pm

Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby hipraptor » Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:56 am

tomos wrote:Yep its probability...

You need to show you DID not download that software, dont play games etc... Now if you are an old fart like me ..
Who rearly DID NOT download that game ... I dont play computer games. I am in my mid 40,s with 2 very young children etc... If they want to look at your PC,s and you have nothing to hide, then let them... even offer it in a letter...


Tomos



I think offering DL access to people's should not be done aby anyone irrespective of if they have been falsley accused or not, this is a civil case and DL has taken enought liberties as it has without people allowing these the opportunity to snoop into people's private files and other data.
hipraptor
 
Posts: 481
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:05 am
Location: uk

Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby Paladwyn » Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:17 am

If you want to have somebody look at your computer, make sure it's a 3rd party. Don't let them personally do it, if they are able to sink this low to harrass innocent people, and not listen to their pleas, then I wouldn't trust them to look at my computer at all.
Don't roll your chair backwards, you might run over my foot.
Paladwyn
 
Posts: 3991
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:55 pm
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada

Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby tomos » Sat Aug 16, 2008 3:25 am

How we all getting on

I recieved my next (2nd) letter.. The one where thay send back the £10 cheque, and mention not seeking advice from the web , the case aready setout etc ? Guess you guys have had this one as well huh :?:
I now have 14 days...

Whats the nxt step... I dont want to just ignore it ...

Just write back and say see you in court then I guess, the last line on every one about
We expressly reserve our clients wishes ..umm

I trust no one has caved in and paid up ...
Test case one step closer !

Tomos
tomos
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 12:22 pm

Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby Paladwyn » Sat Aug 16, 2008 9:53 am

Of course they don't want you to seek advice from the web...it's free and damaging their case :)
Don't roll your chair backwards, you might run over my foot.
Paladwyn
 
Posts: 3991
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:55 pm
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada

Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby hipraptor » Sun Aug 17, 2008 5:15 pm

tomos wrote:How we all getting on

I recieved my next (2nd) letter.. The one where thay send back the £10 cheque, and mention not seeking advice from the web , the case aready setout etc ? Guess you guys have had this one as well huh :?:
I now have 14 days...

Whats the nxt step... I dont want to just ignore it ...

Just write back and say see you in court then I guess, the last line on every one about
We expressly reserve our clients wishes ..umm

I trust no one has caved in and paid up ...
Test case one step closer !

Tomos


£10 quid cheque, not heared this one before :?
hipraptor
 
Posts: 481
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:05 am
Location: uk

Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby eldard » Sun Aug 17, 2008 5:45 pm

hipraptor wrote:
tomos wrote:How we all getting on

I recieved my next (2nd) letter.. The one where thay send back the £10 cheque, and mention not seeking advice from the web , the case aready setout etc ? Guess you guys have had this one as well huh :?:
I now have 14 days...

Whats the nxt step... I dont want to just ignore it ...

Just write back and say see you in court then I guess, the last line on every one about
We expressly reserve our clients wishes ..umm

I trust no one has caved in and paid up ...
Test case one step closer !

Tomos


£10 quid cheque, not heared this one before :?


I think I read about a cheeky little scheme to try and get them to disclose what information they have on you by using the Data Protection Act to make a request (and thus enclosing a small fee). I somehow doubt "evidence" is covered in the same way as other personal data with regards to the Data Protection Act but I suppose there was no harm in trying?
eldard
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:40 am

Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby hipraptor » Mon Aug 18, 2008 9:05 am

Mind the thing is most of the data they hold on people as regards these cases was ill gotton on iffy evidence and false pretense.
hipraptor
 
Posts: 481
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:05 am
Location: uk

Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby Vindictor » Tue Aug 19, 2008 4:02 am

I received my letter back in March '07.

For my own reasons, and after talking with my ISP legal dept, I decided to pay up, and just make it go away.

After reading this on the BBC News page this morning, it makes me glad I did

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7568642.stm

All this time, I've been kinda sad that I just threw that money away, but now people are actually getting sued, the £400 I had to pay was worth it for peace of mind.

Vin.

Game sharers face legal crackdown

Image
The creators of Dream Pinball have aggressively pursued suspected pirates

A British woman who put a game on a file-sharing network has been ordered to pay damages to the game's creator.

Topware Interactive has won more than £16,000 following legal action against the woman who shared a copy of Dream Pinball 3D.

Three other suspected sharers of the game are awaiting damages hearings.

The test case against the unnamed woman from London could see thousands of other Britons suspected of sharing the game in court.

'Thousands' more

In the case heard at London's Patents County Court the game maker won damages of £6,086.56 plus costs of £10,000.

"The damages and costs ordered by the Court are significant and should act as a deterrent," said David Gore, a partner at Davenport Lyons who acted for Topware.

He added: "This shows that taking direct steps against infringers is an important and effective weapon in the battle against online piracy."

"This is the first of many," said Mr Gore. "It was always intended that there would be a lot more."

Mr Gore said details of "thousands" of suspected file-sharers of the game who might now face legal action were known.

On file-sharing or peer-to-peer (P2P) networks the files being shared are held on members' computers and those who want a particular game, music track or video get bits of it from everyone else who has it.
The music industry has taken a softer line against suspected pirates

Topware Interactive started its campaign against pirates of Dream Pinball 3D in early 2007 after legal action forced 18 British net firms to pass on details of suspected pirates that it had identified.

Following this it sent out about 500 letters to Britons it had identified as making the game available via file-sharing networks such as eMule, eDonkey, Gnutella and many others.

In the letters the company asked for a payment of about £300 as a "settlement" figure that would head off further legal action.

Some of those accused of sharing the game chose to fight the legal action and it was in one of these contested cases that Topware Interactive won its claim for damages.

"This is a proper Intellectual Property (IP) court that has made this judgement," said independent IP barrister David Harris. "The previous ones were default judgements where defendants never turned up."

The hearing in the IP court meant the case had been rigorously analysed and the law properly understood, said Mr Harris.

"It's a much more interesting case in that respect," he said.

But, he said, he was not sure if this case meant game makers were getting more aggressive about chasing and prosecuting pirates.

"I do not get any sense that there's been any fundamental shift in the desire to litigate," he said.

Becky Hogge, director of the Open Rights Group that campaigns on cyber liberties issues, said: "An open court process with a full report is certainly preferable to justice of the type being mooted by the government on P2P, where activity takes place behind closed doors through industry action."

She added that awards for damages had to be realistic and not made to act as a "deterrent".

"In relation to the orders for release of personal data, it is important that court processes do not become rubberstamps for industry action but retain judicial safeguards and independence," said Ms Hogge.


Vindictor
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:58 am

Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby tomos » Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:27 am

Yep I see your point..

I however firmly believe I did not down load the file in question,, I therefor refuse to
pay for an Act I did not commit. If I had a shadow of doubt that I was guilty I may not re consider..
(Though I doubt it...)

I would like to know the case details, the women seems to have made no comment, a bit od me thinks.. :tinfoilhat:
If I believed I was innocent and then found guilty and fines that kinda money I would make sure people knew about it.

As we know DL read these... DL PM me, cut the letters (save us both time and money) lets make a court date and see the outcome,if you win at least I would know how an innocent party can be made to look guilty. I will not be paying a penny till
ordered to do so..

I am innocent and getting more p***ed every time I even think about it, how many people are gona be thinking, I am sure I am innocent, but can't risk a fine just in case .... Thats not justice, jusy easy money for DL etc :pissedoff:
tomos
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 12:22 pm

Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby gremlin99 » Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:54 pm

Do not panic, guys. There is a good discussion on Colin Mcrae Dirt forum .
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=39877&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=1000

This lady got default judgment against her because she did not show up at the court. She is one of the four default judgment cases we knew for a while. The article is written in old good scary tactics manner. Hate when they do that. :evil:
Sorry, don't feel like putting anything in the sig right now...
User avatar
gremlin99
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 3:08 pm
Location: Outside of normal space-time continuum.

Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby tomos » Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:07 pm

So this was another default judgment ? It does not read that way ?

'This is a proper Intellectual Property (IP) court that has made this judgement," said independent IP barrister David Harris. "The previous ones were default judgements where defendants never turned up."

Has the women made any comments ?

Tomos
tomos
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 12:22 pm

Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby Billy Smart » Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:11 pm

Vindictor wrote:
All this time, I've been kinda sad that I just threw that money away, but now people are actually getting sued, the £400 I had to pay was worth it for peace of mind.



If you were innocent you were a mug.........you will never have piece of mind and the thought of giving away £400 will never go away.I did say If...

also what is to stop them coming back next week and asking for another £400 for another game you didnt download or make available or whatever.This just leaves the door open and you marked as an easy target.
on another point your ISP's legal department will only be covering their own backs they wont be bothered about you so any advice from them must always be treated carefully....I am not trying to make you look bad btw its just everyone has to make there own mind up on these matters and i hope your choice was soundly made, i would for example be quite glad to go to court as i do know i have never downloaded that game, or for that matter another game,but whether i could prove in a court that i hadn't is another matter....i know i couldnt provide router logs to support innocence as who in a home environment could ????

Until i see a judgement against someone who has turned up in court with representation and been found guilty etc etc then i will reserve a verdict on these revelations ??? but anyone admitting guilt for something they havent done is just stupid whatever the cost.
Billy Smart
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:48 pm

Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby hipraptor » Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:14 pm

gremlin99 wrote:Do not panic, guys. There is a good discussion on Colin Mcrae Dirt forum .
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=39877&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=1000

This lady got default judgment against her because she did not show up at the court. She is one of the four default judgment cases we knew for a while. The article is written in old good scary tactics manner. Hate when they do that. :evil:


Where in the other thread is their evidence it was a default judgement and just another observation 100 x £16,000 = £1,600, 000 hmmm
hipraptor
 
Posts: 481
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:05 am
Location: uk

Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby tomos » Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:19 pm

What makes you belive it was a default Judement

It states :
This is a proper Intellectual Property (IP) court that has made this judgement," said independent IP barrister David Harris. "The previous ones were default judgements where defendants never turned up."

Where did you discover that she never turned up ?


Tomos
tomos
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 12:22 pm

Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby gremlin99 » Tue Aug 19, 2008 4:17 pm

Well, as I said, check out Collin Mcrae Dirt thread - looks like a lot of confusion and FUD there. Here are a couple of posts:

by Eldard: "Just got an email from the reporter from the Metro that covered this story (http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article.htm ... _a_source=) saying that it is one of the people from the original default judgments but can't give out any more information?

Either he's lying or this is the result of the push from DL to get more damages awarded from the previous case.

Anyway this whole thing is a bit of a mess, causing a lot of confusion."

by hambut bulde &others:" Fenrix wrote:

Topware Interactive has won more than £16,000 following legal action against Isabella Barwinska of London, who shared a copy of Dream Pinball 3D.

Three other suspected sharers of the game are awaiting damages hearings.



I assume that this person is part of the original 4 defaulters, and the other 3 cases are waiting to be heard for the costs payments....



Yes but further on down the BBC article it says

Some of those accused of sharing the game chose to fight the legal action and it was in one of these contested cases [my emphasis] that Topware Interactive won its claim for damages.

"This is a proper Intellectual Property (IP) court that has made this judgement," said independent IP barrister David Harris. "The previous ones were default judgements where defendants never turned up."

The hearing in the IP court meant the case had been rigorously analysed and the law properly understood, said Mr Harris.

"It's a much more interesting case in that respect," he said.



I must admit I thought this was one of the four we knew about previously, but Mr Harris' comments are that this is new"

Cheers mate
Sorry, don't feel like putting anything in the sig right now...
User avatar
gremlin99
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 3:08 pm
Location: Outside of normal space-time continuum.

Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby tomos » Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:18 pm

Indeed we need to clarify if this was a default Judement.. Maybe it was not, though I think if not there is more here than is being let on...

I wish DL could be more honest and open,,, as you would expect from a law firm ???
Still they are not getting a penny out of me till I am ordered to do so!
Then I could comment on how / why ?

Still VERY odd a woman who was prepared to go to court, then lost for that amount and did not make a single
statment .... Anywhere >>>

Tomos
tomos
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 12:22 pm

Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby Vindictor » Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:20 am

Just found another news report about it, released an hour ago

The copyright ambulance-chasers at Davenport Lyons have a High Court order demanding 25,000 UK ISP subscribers' names and addresses, it emerged today.

Davenport Lyons will send letters to the addresses it obtains demanding £300 to avoid a potentially costly court battle.

The London law firm hit headlines on Tuesday when it won £16,000 from a woman it accused of illegally sharing the game Dream Pinball 3D over a peer-to-peer network. Davenport Lyons will get £10,000 and the game's publisher Topware Interactive £6,000 in damages.

Codemasters, British developer of higher profile games such as Colin McRae DiRT has also employed Davenport Lyons, which opened up its new market in chasing filesharers last year.

In possibly related news, customers of Be Unlimited, BT, Easynet (Sky), Entanet, KCom (Karoo and Eclipse) Orange, Plusnet, Thus (Demon) and Tiscali were all fingered for filesharing in an application for personal details granted by the High Court on 30 June. IP addresses were seen participating in peer-to-peer networks sharing copyright material.

The application to identify the subscribers was granted on grounds there was "prima facie case that each of the subscribers associated with the IP addresses... have copied the Applicant's work(s) on to his or her personal or office Computer without the [rights holder's] permission for the purpose of making it available via file sharing".

That High Court order is here on the website of Digiprotect, a German firm that identifies alleged copyright infringers on behalf of rights holders before sending in Davenport Lyons.

All the broadband providers had until 29 July to comply with the order, except BT and Plusnet, who have until 30 September. Failure to meet the demands would put the ISPs in contempt of court and liable to prosecution.

We've asked Davenport Lyons if the order on Digiprotect's website is the same one detailed by The Times today as accusing 25,000, but it hasn't given us an answer yet. We'll update this story if it does. ®



EDIT: and here's todays Times piece btw if anybody wants a read

Code: Select all
http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/gadgets_and_gaming/article4569180.ece
Vindictor
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:58 am

Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby Alisha » Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:11 pm

Here's some more articles for info about the woman thats been charged £16000

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ourts.html

http://www.itproportal.com/articles/200 ... e-sharing/

http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/news/di ... wnload.php

It seems she shared the download with friends. So perhaps she admitted to doing that which is why she got such a big fine??
Alisha
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:13 am

Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby Alisha » Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:32 pm

Why is the fine so high for this woman? £10,000 for solicitors fee's and over £6000 for the damage caused my copyright laws or what ever. If the games or whatever that are being downloaded cost £15 to £20 why are the fines so high?? I'll get fined less for drink driving (not that I ever had this so not sure) or nicking a CD from a shop wouldn't I??? Think the government need to WAKE UP and see whats going on, if this carries on there be even more bankrupt people they will need to support so the taxes will go up so on so on.... What with the way the economy is at the moment. People can't even afford there own home.
Alisha
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:13 am

Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby gremlin99 » Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:36 pm

Thanks for the links Alisha. Still, more FUD, no substance in those articles. Looks like they all rehash the same original info. What exactly did happen with that Polish lady?
Sorry, don't feel like putting anything in the sig right now...
User avatar
gremlin99
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 3:08 pm
Location: Outside of normal space-time continuum.

Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby MrFredPFL » Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:13 pm

exactly, gremlin. i especially enjoyed the one which says the woman has not been named ;)
User avatar
MrFredPFL
I am Spartacus
 
Posts: 14889
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 4:48 pm

Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby enigmax » Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:15 am

The PR company working for Davenport Lyons admitted that it was a default judgement

http://torrentfreak.com/uk-game-piracy- ... es-080821/
User avatar
enigmax
 
Posts: 813
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 6:58 am
Location: torrentfreak

Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby Paladwyn » Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:18 am

Sweet...default judgement...another no-brainer here then, they are merely targetting the ones who ignored. Yup...
Don't roll your chair backwards, you might run over my foot.
Paladwyn
 
Posts: 3991
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:55 pm
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada

Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby Meek » Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:51 am

Hey enigmax you promoting your own articles? :D lol.

Cheers for the info though, is good to know this.
Meek
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 4:58 am

PreviousNext

Return to Torrent Download Court Action Threat/Settlement Letter Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

© 2001-2008 Slyck.com