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legal action for downloading Dream Pinball (Davenport-Lyons)

For discussion of the threatened legal action surrounding the alleged filesharing of pornography, computer games and music. (Golden Eye Int LTD / GEIL / MIRCOM / TCYK)
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Welcome to this forum, should you have received a letter do not panic, read the threads and make a (hopefully more informed) decision on how you want to proceed.

To avoid repeating previous posts, please familiarise yourself with the following information before posting.

Summary site (BeingThreatened.com) and Chat (IRC) or Chat (WebClient)

Speculative invoicing and “pay up or else” schemes for copyright infringement - Citizen's Advice Bureau

Speculative Invoicing Handbook

I've received a letter, what should I do? and Davenport Lyons - What can we do as a group?

Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby MajorMellons » Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:05 am

lucylou31 wrote:please help i have had a second letter from dl, and starting to get worried as i dont no wot they r on about,the pc i use is my mums and she takes it home a couple of times a month and sure the pc was not in my home at the time of this download, please help do i write or ignore.


Don't Panic!

Write back to acknowledge their letter, deny everything, don't send a penny.
In the letter, just tell them you deny all accusations, tell them to stop writing to you, don't go into any detail, you are just wasting your own time.

That should put you on a par with most of the other posters on here.

Then sit back and watch DL crash and burn.

I hope :|
* "Davenport Lyons" and/or "Davenport-Lyons" and/or "Davenporn Lyons"
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Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby sjb » Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:16 am

it doesn't really have much to do with the PC but has to do with the IP address the supposed download was from. so the ip they suspect must have something to do with your address and not hers (unless the payer of the bill lives at your address but pay for the internet access at another address).
if you didn't download it write back telling them you didn't download it. It might even be worth stating you want no more correspondence from them unless its a court case appointment.
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Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby lucylou31 » Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:12 am

thanks 4 your advice,wot i mean is there was no pc in the house at the time in question so wot did i download this game on to.
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Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby bazwar31 » Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:30 pm

just a bit of information, on the chris moyles show this morning on there newsbeat its reported that a games company called topware interactive are taking 100 people to court because they have so called had enough of file sharing
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Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby sjb » Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:22 pm

heres the newsbeat article

http://news.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/hi/technology/newsid_7505000/7505916.stm

The company behind the computer game Dream Pinball 3D is taking 100 British people to court for allegedly uploading the game to file sharing sites.

It is thought to be the biggest drive yet against gamers who use peer-to-peer networks like BitTorrent and Limewire.

Lawyers working for the gaming industry have told Newsbeat to expect thousands more cases before the end of the year.

UK law firm Davenport Lyons is taking action for Topware Interactive, the US firm which produces Dream Pinball 3D.

Nintendo's Dream Pinball 3D
More games are being illegally shared as connections speed up
The man in charge of the case, David Gore, said: "There is no difference between stealing a DVD from a high street retailer and downloading it from a peer-to-peer network.

"We hope that it will act as a deterrent. There is a hard core of file sharers who are just interested in getting something for nothing."

The Central London County Court has already ordered four file sharers to pay damages of £750 each in the case, although that figure could rise as high as £3,500 once costs are taken into account.

None of the four individuals appeared at the court hearing.

File sharing campaign

Davenport Lyons is using tracking technology developed by a Swiss company called Logistep to collect evidence against people who use peer-to-peer networks to upload copyright material.

Its File Sharing Monitor software records the individual IP address of the computer alleged to be used in the file transfer.

Lawyers still need to compare that with a list of physical addresses held by the broadband companies involved.

Davenport Lyons says a recent High Court victory will force Internet Service Providers (ISPs) to hand over thousands of names and addresses of suspected file sharers.

"This is a widespread practice," said David Gore. "In one European territory, a new game sold 2,000 copies in its first week on release.

"But 12,000 more were copied illegally from file sharing sites.

"Games companies now spend millions of pounds developing new titles and they cannot continue to do that while their work is being stolen."
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Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby Golgo1 » Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:40 pm

Topware is owned by Nintendo?
Am I the ONLY one who remembers that video KILLED the radio star?
There are two kinds of people in this world: people who can extrapolate from incomplete data
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Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby Fenrix » Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:16 pm

I cant see any other news sources carrying this..Only the PA and BBC radio........
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Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby hipraptor » Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:42 pm

Nothing new really from DL, mind I cannot see any reference in the articles to Nintendo, just the picture of a DS.

As for taking thousands of file sharers guilty or not to court, are DL barmy or what, I am sure the courts will soon get p***ed with them or do DL hope to get on the spot fine powers and just fine people without going to court :lol:
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Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby unhappy » Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:16 pm

The Nintendo reference seems to be the hypertext title for the picture, not sure why it's on that page other than its the DS version I presume.

I wonder if the BBC would be intersted to know that Logistep's actions have been outlawed in many European countries.

Also notice that the news article refers to the "IP address of the computer". Shame the facts weren't accurate - what it shouid have said is "beware anyone in the UK who has an internet connection - you're next !"
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Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby maniac3000 » Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:33 pm

Golgo1 wrote:Topware is owned by Nintendo?



There's Topware in ur rockband :shock: :shock:
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Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby sjb » Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:49 am

you can make a complaint/correspond on this link http://news.bbc.co.uk/newswatch/ukfs/hi/newsid_3950000/newsid_3955200/3955223.stm
quote the article url
news.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/hi/technology/newsid_7505000/7505916.stm

if you find any inaccuracies, half truth etc might be worth a try for them to look further. I think it's also worth informing them of the underhanded way they have gone about their business.

I will send mine off tonight.
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Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby Fenrix » Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:32 am

Complaint sent, i really encourage other people to reply to the bbc.....

sjb wrote:you can make a complaint/correspond on this link http://news.bbc.co.uk/newswatch/ukfs/hi/newsid_3950000/newsid_3955200/3955223.stm
quote the article url
news.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/hi/technology/newsid_7505000/7505916.stm

if you find any inaccuracies, half truth etc might be worth a try for them to look further. I think it's also worth informing them of the underhanded way they have gone about their business.

I will send mine off tonight.
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Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby MajorMellons » Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:39 am

Done
* "Davenport Lyons" and/or "Davenport-Lyons" and/or "Davenporn Lyons"
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Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby geoffro » Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:49 am

Done too, lets all get at them
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Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby Golgo1 » Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:38 pm

maniac3000 wrote:
Golgo1 wrote:Topware is owned by Nintendo?


There's Topware in ur rockband :shock: :shock:

There's topware in YOU FACE!!!!!!
sweet llama :lol:


It's good to know they're a third party. Id hate Nintendo to be directly involved in this junk
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Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby Paladwyn » Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:22 pm

Nintendo is usually targetted by this kinda crap, not instigating it...
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Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby sjb » Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:47 pm

the letter to bbc i sent


You gave one side of a two sided story. The accused have been lied to and misled by davenport lyons (so called professional solicitors) in order to extort money by menaces. They have quoted foreign law, said they would definitely win if the case was taken to court (which is impossible to say unless they intend to bribe the judge), not followed pre action procedures, made it impossibly to comply with what they have demanded because the terms were impossible or would mean they could never use the internet in their whole live ever again and loads of other foul methods whilst in their pursuit of innocent people. They have even quoted in their letters that it might not necessarily be the accused who downloaded the game. Their data collection methods have even been banned in certain European countries and a lawyer doing the same type of scare tactics in another country was banned because it was being used to scam people. As for the judgment given against the four accused as far as we know they could be dead , moved to a new location (this has been going on now for 18 month)and never received any letters, therefore a easy target for davenport lyons. So far they have shyed away from taking anyone who would stand up for themselves and give them as good as they get attitude. if you would like to read more you can goto viewtopic.php?f=31&t=31051&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=1025 this is just as good as any page in the forum but start with how the've been deemed illegal in Italy.
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Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby asdaprice76 » Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:23 am

I've submitted something similar to the Beeb as an official complaint. I thought they were supposed to present balanced viewpoints? I said I was disgusted that they seem to have just published a DL press release without question.
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Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby eldard » Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:44 am

I've done simliar things with the BBC and all the other "news" site that have just basically republished a press release:

Regarding your article on Davenport Lyons and their recent tactics dated 14/07/08 () it is worth considering a number of other points. Davenport Lyons has been pursuing these cases since early 2007 (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/03/28/uk_share_hunt/) and has already gained many people’s personal information through the court system, however it should be noted that the information is handed over only in relation to criminal cases, which Davenport Lyons drop as soon as they retrieve the information so they can just pursue a civil case. Also their recent victories against 4 alleged file sharers was a default judgement where the defendants did not even turn up to give a defence. Davenport Lyons’ evidence is based upon information provided by the Swiss company ‘Logistep’ which has so far been dismissed in both France and Italy (http://torrentfreak.com/anti-piracy-out ... e-support/) and also has been found in breach of Switzerland’s own telecommunication law (http://www.infoworld.com/article/08/01/ ... law_1.html) . One particular solicitor in France has even been banned from practicing for 6 months for following the same aggressive measures as Davenport Lyons (http://tech.blorge.com/Structure:%20/20 ... -6-months/) . Hopefully you’ll consider these points if you should ever right a follow up to the article.
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Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby Mad-Malc » Sat Aug 09, 2008 11:53 am

Perhaps it's just me but having read that most of the people being written to being accused of sharing 'the copyrighted material' are using wireless internet routers and there is no law to make an internet user encrypt their access, then the cases ought to fail.

However, I've also read that the company chasing for the infringement are recommending that the users encrypt their wireless access points and install anti-virus and firewalls, then all of the defendants are being asked to enter into financial outlay in order to protect the copyright holders rights.

It would therefore seem reasonable to me to send the company chasing for breach of copyright a proforma invoice for the services of a computer technician, to encrypt the wireless access point, together with an annual agreement for them to pay for the installation of anti-virus and firewall applications together with their annual maintenance cost.

Clearly I do not expect the company pursuing the claims of copyright breach to pay the proforma invoice or to enter into the annual agreement to pay for the anti-virus and firewall applications.

The point of the exercise is to show that the defendants will take reasonable steps to stop further breaches of copyright if the plaintiff is willing to help put such measures in place.

There is no law which requires a wireless access point to be encrypted, nor is their a requirement to have an anti-virus or firewall installed.

If a court case then arises, the defendants can show that they are prepared to take corrective action provided the plaintiff meets the costs for a requirement of their making which is not a legal requirement to use a wireless access point, but is solely a requirement of the plaintiff to protect the plaintiffs rights under copyright.

Also the proforma invoices and un-entered into agreements for the plaintiffs to pay for their protection demands will give the defendants a financial counter claim.

This would in no way jeopardise the defence of it wasn't me, it's an open wireless access point, but would probably re-inforce such a defence.

Just a thought
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Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby hipraptor » Sun Aug 10, 2008 4:28 am

An excellent observation, but of course DL no doubt have also seen you post and will now be thinking of ways to counteract this, no doubt by creating another law as for sure DL make law here in the UK, well they seem to think they do.
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Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby Mad-Malc » Sun Aug 10, 2008 7:51 am

I also think that if DL were to take someone to court claiming hundreds if not thousands of £'s and the defendants counterclaim was for the proforma invoice services of a computer technician of around £40 to £50, then DLs estimation of the monetary harm their clients have experienced would look a bit stupid.

There also will probably be very few jurors or members of the legal profession who would hand on heart say that they were capable of ensuring that a wireless access point was completely locked down and not open to possible third party usage, if challenged and given a selection of wireless routers to configure.
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Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby MrFredPFL » Sun Aug 10, 2008 11:45 am

I also think that if DL were to take someone to court claiming hundreds if not thousands of £'s and the defendants counterclaim was for the proforma invoice services of a computer technician of around £40 to £50, then DLs estimation of the monetary harm their clients have experienced would look a bit stupid.


i've got to disagree. there's no correlation between the cost of fixing a problem and the potential damage that can be caused should the problem not be fixed.

an aircraft worth tens of millions of dollars, and containing hundreds of people, can easily crash and kill everyone onboard due to something that could have been replaced for well under a hundred dollars.

the space shuttle challenger was destroyed, along with the people on it, due to the failure of one of its cheapest components.

brake lines on cars are cheap - but when one fails, the entire vehicle can easily be trashed, along with any occupants and innocent bystanders.

a faulty thermostat in a grocery store can lead to the spoiling of thousands of dollars worth of food, even though the thermostat itself is inexpensive.

without a lock on your door, anyone can walk into your house and steal everything you own. that can typically be purchased around here for about 10 dollars.

and so on... ;)
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Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby metoo » Sun Aug 10, 2008 6:14 pm

Mad-Malc wrote:I also think that if DL were to take someone to court claiming hundreds if not thousands of £'s and the defendants counterclaim was for the proforma invoice services of a computer technician of around £40 to £50, then DLs estimation of the monetary harm their clients have experienced would look a bit stupid.

There also will probably be very few jurors or members of the legal profession who would hand on heart say that they were capable of ensuring that a wireless access point was completely locked down and not open to possible third party usage, if challenged and given a selection of wireless routers to configure.


Also remember they don't have to prove anything 100%... only 51%!!! This isn't a criminal court where you have to prove 'beyond reasonable doubt'. It is 'on the balance of probabilities'.

They don't have to 'prove' anything. The party that convinces the judge wins.
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Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby hipraptor » Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:59 am

metoo wrote:
Mad-Malc wrote:I also think that if DL were to take someone to court claiming hundreds if not thousands of £'s and the defendants counterclaim was for the proforma invoice services of a computer technician of around £40 to £50, then DLs estimation of the monetary harm their clients have experienced would look a bit stupid.

There also will probably be very few jurors or members of the legal profession who would hand on heart say that they were capable of ensuring that a wireless access point was completely locked down and not open to possible third party usage, if challenged and given a selection of wireless routers to configure.


Also remember they don't have to prove anything 100%... only 51%!!! This isn't a criminal court where you have to prove 'beyond reasonable doubt'. It is 'on the balance of probabilities'.

They don't have to 'prove' anything. The party that convinces the judge wins.


Yep that is how it works, I was involved in a crash on my bike and the judge found in the other persons favour, I still recall the comments of the judge, who commented that I was wearing an helmet in his conclusion, so in effect I must be at fault.

Enough said.
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