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legal action for downloading Dream Pinball (Davenport-Lyons)

For discussion of the threatened legal action surrounding the alleged filesharing of pornography, computer games and music. (Golden Eye Int LTD / GEIL / MIRCOM / TCYK)
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Summary site (BeingThreatened.com) and Chat (IRC) or Chat (WebClient)

Speculative invoicing and “pay up or else” schemes for copyright infringement - Citizen's Advice Bureau

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I've received a letter, what should I do? and Davenport Lyons - What can we do as a group?

Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby unhappy » Sun May 11, 2008 4:07 pm

Yes, what's the point in DL wasting the postage and time / effort to send this letter out. It doesn't ask for or request anything. So why send it ? Only reason I can think is to try their luck in getting a few more people to cave-in.
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Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby bored » Thu May 29, 2008 2:05 pm

That's exactly what they are afer ;-)
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Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby sebasstianusUK » Fri May 30, 2008 3:55 am

Second letter arrived. With payment forms.
I have actually downloaded the game mentioned in the letter.
But since they are not taking people to the court, and I assume that I am not in the first 1000 on their list, I guess, I will wait to see what will happen
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Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby sebasstianusUK » Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:07 pm

Hi guys.
I just had a call form Talktalk. They have received a court order to send my details.
i tihnik it is going to be serious...
Any advice? Im freeaking out_
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Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby MrFredPFL » Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:16 pm

yes. relax.

they already had your details. this is nothing new.
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Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby Golgo1 » Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:34 pm

Well, I may be wrong, but that may be the first time that an ISP has actually informed the user that there was a court order for information. While it still sucks they gave it out, I think they deserve an honorable mention for notifying the user when nearly all ISPs have failed in that department
Am I the ONLY one who remembers that video KILLED the radio star?
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Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby MrFredPFL » Fri Jun 06, 2008 4:34 pm

except he had already received two letters from you know who BEFORE he was notified by the ISP. seems a bit casual for a compliment ;)
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Re: Dream Pinball 3D

Postby Pinball Wizard » Sat Jun 07, 2008 7:44 am

Regarding sebasstianusUK:

As you just admitted in your May 30th post that you have downloaded the game in question, Davenport Lyons may have put 2 + 2 together and identified you from you posting alias and decided to pursue your case. I doubt if DL managed to get your IP address from slyck and identified you that way as there has not been enough time since that post, and DL are now well known for not being the quickest to respond (I went for seven months without a response from them until I wrote them another letter).

IF they have identified you from your post, and IF they take you to court, I dont see how you could defend yourself in light of your earlier post. and IF (Yet another IF) they are successfull in their case against you, I think we all can expect another round of threatening letters stating that your case has been through the courts and they won. (and how that must mean that they would win against everyone)

I dont know how likely it is that DL have identified you from your post (you will have a better idea on the likelyhood of this depending on your real life name and if it relates to your slyck username).

The majority of people posting on these forums are either innocent (like my friend who I speak for certainly is) or are at least claiming to be innocent. Given the news that a network printer has been issued with several DMCA takedown notices (Thankyou Enigmax),and ISP's failure to accurately record IP address assignments, I think it is likely that the majority of posters here are actually victims of DL's misinformed attack.

I do not wish to alarm you, but I think that IF (BIG IF) DL were to pursue one case, it would absolutely have to be one in which they had more evidence than what they have revealed so far.

Question? As DL already have had a court order to release personal details, could they turn around months later and ask for confirmation that one of those people had a particular IP address at a later time - or if they connected to a particular website at a particular time?

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Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby unhappy » Sat Jun 07, 2008 9:39 am

No information given in these or other forums could be used as evidence in court since it can't be reliably traced to a single person. The only possible link would be an IP address which we have already established is not sufficient.
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Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby Paladwyn » Sat Jun 07, 2008 10:36 am

Would be best to not admit to guilt anywhere. Though I doubt they will ever be able to identify, other than they would have some proof that 'somebody' downloaded it and that person received a letter...so they would believe they are on the right track.
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Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby MrFredPFL » Sat Jun 07, 2008 10:43 am

proof? you'd call an unattributed forum post proof? what, do you work for THEM? :lol: ;)
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Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby Pinball Wizard » Sat Jun 07, 2008 2:52 pm

Hi there Mr Fred

No, I would not consider a near anonymous post as proof, and no, I most definitely do not work for Davenport Lyons (I am not sure if you are joking there or not, text without tone of voice can be so misleading ;-)

The court action we (I speak to DL on behalf of my friend) are all threatened with is a civil one, not a criminal one. As has been stated so many times in this and other threads, the difference is that DL only have to convince a judge that it is more likely that you did commit the offense for the judge to find in favour of DL. If your real name is (for example) Mr Fred P. F. L., and DL read this forum (guaranteed that they do as they have mentioned the posting of their "copyrighted" letters), then it would be a fair assumption by them that they have identified your username as your alias. I have no idea if that would be admissable in a civil court, it certainly does NOT prove beyond reasonable doubt, but that is only applicable in a criminal court.

I did note with amusement, that I neglected to omit my location (to the right of these posts) - now I feel like a muppet :-)

I agree with paladwyn in that it would be best not to openly admit to an offence.

I am still waiting on concrete proof of what my friends IP address really was at the alleged infringment time from a third party. (I hope their records go back 2 years). I will be shouting from the rooftops if they come through for us

Good luck all

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Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby MrFredPFL » Sat Jun 07, 2008 3:07 pm

:lol: and :oops: sorry, i guess i should have used a quote. yes, i was joking, and i was speaking to paladwyn ;)
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Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby sjb » Mon Jun 09, 2008 4:44 am

Back to the people who didn't download the game. I think there would be reasonable grounds for saying they have acted in a possible fraudulent way. What they have done might be legal but might come under fraud.
So you can understand what I'm saying i'll explain, you have probably heard of boiler room scams. What they do isnt illegal as such (we can all buy shares in any company ie BT, M&S, boiler rooms inc.) . BUT if it is done to scam people out of their money it is called a fraud, which is how there being chased at the moment. Unless Davenport take someone to court, thats all its been from the start....a scam to get money by misrepresentation.
By the way checked post and no letter...but don't believe i ever will be taken to court by them....really must do that letter to the law society..
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Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby Paladwyn » Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:21 am

MrFredPFL wrote:proof? you'd call an unattributed forum post proof? what, do you work for THEM? :lol: ;)


Funny :) I guess I shoulda said 'admittance' and not 'proof' as admitting a deed doesn't necessarily mean that it's proof they did it.
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Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby Pinball Wizard » Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:45 am

Hi there folks

Some good news from the German courts yesterday - although it is not from the German supreme court, but considering how much DL like quoting the German courts, I thought you guys might be interested.

http://www.p2p-blog.com/item-696.html

I certainly cant wait till my next letter to DL :-)
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Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby Mamma » Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:20 am

http://torrentfreak.com/court-hits-bittorrent-users-who-failed-to-appear-080702/

new article.

Thousands of file-sharers could be sued after a landmark victory by a computer games company.

It won a court action against four people who individually uploaded the Dream Pinball 3D game on to an illegal sharing website.

They were ordered to pay £750 fines plus costs of about £2,000 after being found to have breached copyright.

This means the four – none of whom was at the hearing – must pay many times the original cost of the game, which was priced at £16.

The case at Central London County Court was brought by the game's producer, Topware Interactive.

The fines reflected the amount of money lost by Topware, even though none of the four worked on behalf of a company or consortium.

After the hearing Topware's solicitors, Davenport Lyons, said it obtained disclosure orders for 1,000 names from internet service providers. They intend to use those to prosecute more file-sharers later this week.

David Gore, a partner at Davenport Lyons, said: 'Copyright owners spend millions of pounds developing copyright works for sale to the public for their enjoyment and yet many think it is acceptable to obtain the work illegally and for free by procuring a copy on a peer-to-peer network.'

Some of the sharing websites are legal but many are not, or do not take action against illegal sharing.

The most infamous file-sharing website was Napster, which was shut down in 2001.

It was later relaunched as a legal platform for file-sharing.
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Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby Mamma » Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:41 am

I should state that

http://torrentfreak.com/court-hits-bittorrent-users-who-failed-to-appear-080702/

Is a different artcle to the one posted above that appeared in the London Metro.
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Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby sjb » Thu Jul 03, 2008 5:22 am

Expect a letter demanding money. But if their good to their word you shouldn't receive one as they said there would be no more correspondence untill we receive the cort summons..
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Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby Mamma » Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:05 am

Well this is exactly what was predicted they'd do, find some people who haven't answered their letters and who wouldn't go to court. They win by default.

It will be interesting to see how they spin their recent awards in the next batch of letters - as we are all going to get another batch of letters we can be very very sure.

await the next letter on the doorstep shortly.

I for one want my day in court.

Hopefully if anyone does get a genuine court summons - they will post it on here.
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Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby hipraptor » Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:29 am

No good sending a letter here, they have been forbidden to do so, the only letters we accept are from a court.
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Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby Paladwyn » Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:31 am

Winning default judgements doesn't mean a landmark victory, all it means is they didn't show up and it was an easy win, as defined...if one party does not show up, the judgement gets awarded to the other party by default.

If the person showed up, but DL did not, it would have been defaulted the other way...and DL lose the case. Frankly, they probably paid the guys NOT to goto court, so they could win.
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Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby hipraptor » Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:02 pm

Paladwyn wrote:Winning default judgements doesn't mean a landmark victory, all it means is they didn't show up and it was an easy win, as defined...if one party does not show up, the judgement gets awarded to the other party by default.

If the person showed up, but DL did not, it would have been defaulted the other way...and DL lose the case. Frankly, they probably paid the guys NOT to goto court, so they could win.


As if DL would do such an a thing :tinfoilhat:
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Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby dream pinball 3d lol » Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:22 pm

well i was laughed at a few post,s ago sugesting they would use jockey,s i think they,ve done just that,looks great for there next cases,which of course there preparing,well my friend and i have been waiting for a court case but as yet nothing,you would think by now most people on this post would have bin to court,it,s blatant underhand legal cash for them,that dissclaimer i ranted about a while back i think may have come back and bit people on the arse,the four people defaulted mabye,but im sure there dl jockeys,again il say this,that dissclaimer,you must sign it before you can pay,we know it covers dl as they have an admitance,but the main point ive bin driving at in past post,s is,if you never did the deed and payed out of intimidation,signed the dissclaimer saying you would never do this sort of thing again you then theoreticaly cannot use the internet,they take that right away from you,it,s a catch 22 with 1 winner,anyway enough of my guff,ps cant wait for my friend to get her court date it looks very good for her,before i go,dont give these twats to much credit there not as bright as they like you to think
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Re: legal action for downloading Dream Pinball 3D

Postby lucylou31 » Mon Jul 14, 2008 6:03 am

please help i have had a second letter from dl, and starting to get worried as i dont no wot they r on about,the pc i use is my mums and she takes it home a couple of times a month and sure the pc was not in my home at the time of this download, please help do i write or ignore.
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