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MASSIVE eDonkey server faking (ServerBeach)?

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MASSIVE eDonkey server faking (ServerBeach)?

Postby worbd » Thu Feb 23, 2006 4:17 pm

A couple of days ago I noticed a few fake servers, but now look a this:

Image

Fake servers seem to have exploded almost overnight! At least all the ones I checked the whois on from 64.34.*.* came from ServerBeach.

Have the eMule or eDonkey teams considered adding built in support for fake server ban lists? Like there is a rating system for fake files, maybe it could be done for servers as well?

It's too bad that they are polluting the network like this. The network is very nice for finding old/rare files.

Have the corrupt bastards really stepped up their actions against the eD network or what?
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Postby HouseCrowd » Fri Feb 24, 2006 8:53 am

I disabled all automatic server list updates a long time ago in favour of a static list, so I haven't seen any changes (apart from RB2 disappearing of course), but it does look like someone's intent on harming the network :shock:

Fortunately their attempts will be futile so long as people don't use these fake servers, though I do agree it would good idea for the ed2k clients to incorporate some sort of 'trusted servers' list to auto-ignore the fakes.
Last edited by HouseCrowd on Fri Feb 24, 2006 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby tay_highfield » Fri Feb 24, 2006 9:56 am

Little buggers aren't they! :evil:

Just only connect to servers that you recognise and trust. The rest can be deleted and never given a second thought.

Just make sure you has disabled all the auto update features in the server tab of options.

What server list are people using now gruk has gone?
Should really think of something to put here.
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Postby poullos » Fri Feb 24, 2006 10:05 am

tay_highfield wrote:Little buggers aren't they! :evil:

Just only connect to servers that you recognise and trust. The rest can be deleted and never given a second thought.

Just make sure you has disabled all the auto update features in the server tab of options.

What server list are people using now gruk has gone?


Edonkey servers 1 to 9
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Postby lordpake » Fri Feb 24, 2006 10:15 am

Actually just using a small number of trusted servers in your list might be shooting yourself in the foot (or how do you put in English). If you want something that is shared by ppl using other servers than those you trust, then you likely will miss those files (Kad of course might help in this respect).

I do agree for some need to filter though.
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Postby HouseCrowd » Fri Feb 24, 2006 10:30 am

lordpake wrote:Actually just using a small number of trusted servers in your list might be shooting yourself in the foot (or how do you put in English). If you want something that is shared by ppl using other servers than those you trust, then you likely will miss those files .


If your searches are global, it shouldn't matter how few severs you have in your list, or which you connect to, so long as it's not a fake one ...... oh, and we say "shooting yourself in the foot" here too! :wink: :lol:
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Postby abou105 » Fri Feb 24, 2006 10:40 am

come on this is totaly expected, many people who are not tech savvy were also usingrazorback and now its gone so they are looking for a new server its the perfect time to catch people out sharing illegaly i guess this is pahse 2 in the mpaa's plan
Information is so valuable in todays society, its understandable people want to lock it up, but the internet is about freedom of information, lets not take that away.
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Postby tay_highfield » Fri Feb 24, 2006 11:01 am

lordpake wrote:Actually just using a small number of trusted servers in your list might be shooting yourself in the foot (or how do you put in English). If you want something that is shared by ppl using other servers than those you trust, then you likely will miss those files (Kad of course might help in this respect).

I do agree for some need to filter though.


I remebered reading somewhere once (sorry don't have the link) that all (real) ed2k servers communicate with one another so if you stayed connected to the network via only one server eventually all your files would be found by way of the server you are connected to searching others for you.

Anyone else know anything about this???? :?
Should really think of something to put here.
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Postby lordpake » Fri Feb 24, 2006 11:28 am

As far as I know, based on eMule docs, when searching with global searches eMule queries all servers in your local list (until certain amount of results is gained), same goes for quering for sources, you need to have those servers in your list at first place. Therefore my response to this comment, HouseCrowd, is valid.
Just only connect to servers that you recognise and trust. The rest can be deleted and never given a second thought.


About that server-source swapping I have no info to one direction or another. I doubt that though. As that would be redundant action since eMule already queries all servers listed. Perhaps someone who know's the server software can give a solid answer.
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Postby SlyckScratch » Fri Feb 24, 2006 12:03 pm

What happens when the number of clueless users outnumber the experts 100 to 1 and the 'fake' servers outnumber the real ones by the same odds?
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Postby Fartingbob » Fri Feb 24, 2006 2:33 pm

SlyckScratch wrote:What happens when the number of clueless users outnumber the experts 100 to 1 and the 'fake' servers outnumber the real ones by the same odds?

You get a new kazaa.
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Postby Ratt » Fri Feb 24, 2006 2:48 pm

lordpake wrote:As far as I know, based on eMule docs, when searching with global searches eMule queries all servers in your local list (until certain amount of results is gained), same goes for quering for sources, you need to have those servers in your list at first place.


Thankfully, the Kademlia search is now almost as good as searching on Razorback ever was. It's slower and it doesn't tell you the percentage of complete files, but it finds as much as a Global Search can, sometimes more. I wouldn't mind having to rely on it exclusively. Hurray for Kad!

Since the demise of Razorback and Gruk, I have reduced my serverlist from the gruk-update-at-startup to a dozen static ones. All of them are based in the Netherlands (Amsterdam shall never be conquered by any mafia other than the porn mafia! :lol: ) except of course for the new top dog...Donkeyserver No.1. Now truly number one.
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Postby zbeast » Fri Feb 24, 2006 2:53 pm

So any Idea what the fokes at server beach are up to.
Are they just colecting data or flooding the network.
with fake responces?

My main test server is down right now.
so I cant test them.
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Postby IceCube » Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:43 pm

Odd, I can really easily connect to users connected to servers not in my static list :\
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Postby lordpake » Fri Feb 24, 2006 4:55 pm

IceCube wrote:Odd, I can really easily connect to users connected to servers not in my static list :\


(I assume we are talking about eMule here)

Err.. you have to get few sources somehow, be it via Kad or via server at first, then source exchange kicks in (where eMule clients dl'ing same file swap information about other ppl who too are dl'ing same file) and that way you can reach others even if you do not know their server.
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Postby bitz » Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:11 pm

Ok this is just one big reason why ed2k servers should no longer be used, even for those of us that might think we can tell the good from the bad.

Like it has been stated before, we do not need them and have not for awhile anyways. Everyone using emule should only connect to kad.

In new versions of emule, ed2k servers support should be dropped. Granted until razorback was taken down it did not make sense to do so, but now with a ever growing number of fake servers and shrinking number of good ones, well it makes sense.

Though personally I do not care, I mostly stopped using emule more than 6 months ago. Now I run it on average less than once a month. :D
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Postby Ratt » Sat Feb 25, 2006 6:52 am

bitz wrote:In new versions of emule, ed2k servers support should be dropped.


Or at least make it so that Kademlia is turned on by default (maybe it's that way already, I haven't really paid attention during the last updates).

I've been using Kad for years, but now I'm test-running it without using servers for the first time. Everything seems fine, searches are satisfactory. Only thing that worries me is not finding those rare files stored by Edonkey users only...a small percentage, sure, but rare files is my thing.
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Postby qm2003 » Sat Feb 25, 2006 7:09 am

Dropping server support for good and relying on KAD only isn't possible for now.

To connect to KAD emule would have to know the ip:port of at least 1 client already connected to KAD.
Right now the only way for a fresh installed emule to get to know such clients is to connect to a server and download something. Then you can start connecting to KAD via "known clients" and disconnect from the server.


Until another reliable and sustainable fool proof method of getting those first ip's is implemented, the servers are still needed. And if only to connect to KAD.
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Postby Ratt » Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:58 pm

qm2003 wrote:To connect to KAD emule would have to know the ip:port of at least 1 client already connected to KAD.


Sure. And those ip:ports are stored in the nodes file, aren't they? As long as at least one of the stored ip's is still connected to Kad (and the odds are good on that) I can still connect to Kad without ever needing any servers. By now, I have rebooted five times without losing access to Kad or using any servers.
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Postby qm2003 » Sat Feb 25, 2006 3:17 pm

Make a fresh install without any nodes.

Then tell me if you needed a server to connect to KAD or not. :lol:
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Postby Iron » Sun Feb 26, 2006 8:59 pm

Obviously you need a way to get a list of nodes, but you certainly don't get that from eDonkey servers. eDonkey will prompt you to download a list from its website when it can't reach overnet or you can go to an IRC channel and get some IP:port pairs. There are dozens of ways to do this.
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Postby tm, » Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:06 pm

It's unbelievable how much unused capacity the ED2K servers have. The entire network could fit on just two decent servers. Big Bang #1 boasts a quad-Opteron 32GB server capable of connecting 3 million peers - which is nearly the entire ED2K network. Yet the server is currently only utilizing about 1% of its total capacity.

I can still remember a time during eDonkey's early days when almost every server stayed full, and finding an open server could be a major chore. And if your server ever went down, you might not have been able to re-connect back onto the network until you downloaded and installed a fresh server.met file.

By comparison, today's problem of fake servers is more of a trivial obstacle, one that simply requires configuring eMule properly - such connecting to only trusted "static" servers. But what bothers me is that many people will no doubt fail to do this, and end up connecting - and uploading their shared file list - to anti-P2P spies.
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