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Why do ISP's throttle upload so much?

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Why do ISP's throttle upload so much?

Postby Lawmanxxx » Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:04 pm

I've been a computer user since early 2001 and became an avid file-sharer about 15 minutes later (and ever since!). Like most of us, download speed has become like a drug - I just can't seem to ever get enough. I started out with dial-up and soon signed up for high speed adsl (Telus - western Canada) and have upgraded my service at every opportunity, from 1.5MB/s to 3.0, 6.0, and have recently upgraded to Telus Turbo with 10-15 MB/s service and I am reasonably happy with actual d/l speed over 1.5mb/sec. However, since I began using private trackers about 5 years ago, I have become more conscious of ratios and in particular my upload speed and capability. My first high speed account gave me a D/L of 150kb/sec and U/L of about 50kb/sec. I currently max out at 1.5+ mb/sec D/L and 120kb/sec U/L. Whereas my download speed has increased over 10 times, upload has increased less than 3 times!
What I clearly don't understand is why the disparity? Most ISP's brag about how much blinding speed they will give you in an attempt to sign you up, and presumably charge more for the luxury. Isn't the cost of data transfer the same in either direction? After all, it's all one big pipeline of ones and zeros, right? Or is it a big conspiracy to rein in all those evil file-sharers? If you ask me, ISPs are wasting a chance to squeeze their customers out of a lot more money by offering very high speed bandwith with equal down AND up. I for one would quite happily pay twice what I am paying now for real, complete high speed service.
Can anyone give a compelling reason, technical or otherwise, why this is so?
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Re: Why do ISP's throttle upload so much?

Postby peewee007 » Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:15 pm

The thing I've heard is the upload speed isn't required as much as download..like years ago when email and other small bandwidth-using things were well..small. Now that email attachments and files are gettin bigger, the upload speeds *should* also increase..Anyway thats what I heard -- "Back then" transfers were smaller but the ISPs (In my opinion) are stickin to that way of doing things.. *shrug*
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Re: Why do ISP's throttle upload so much?

Postby bmh67wa » Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:33 am

The following may be too technical for some. If you fall into that category, skip to the last paragraph. :P




Both DOCSIS (1.x, 2.x) and ADSL(1.x, 2.x) were designed for residential use where most usage is downloading.

On DOCSIS, the upstream spectrum is limited to 6-48MHz due to in-line distribution amplifiers and other hardware while the downstream spectrum is 54-1000MHz which leaves a lot more space to fit download capacity.

In DOCSIS 3.0, both upstream and downstream channels can be allocated across most of the 6-1000MHz range where cable nodes are small enough to avoid amplifiers.

ADSL is much the same story: the phone line's narrow usable spectrum's allocation is heavily biased towards the downstream since this is the dominant direction of residential traffic. In 1.x, upstream is in the 24-138kHz range (~112kHz BW) while downstream is in the 138-1100MHz range (~962kHz BW) so maximum download speeds are about 8X as much as upload speeds. ADSL2 extends the downstream bandwidth to 2.2MHz but leaves the upstream unchanged. 'Annex M' moves the up-down split to 276MHz, easily doubling the maximum attainable upload speed.

Residential internet service delivery technologies were engineered to minimize the cost of delivery and performance of the dominant traffic flow, there is no (or very little) foul play here.

Pre-3.0 cable networks are limited by the tiny amount of total upstream spectrum available within a 'legacy' HFC node, ADSL is limited by the phone line's narrow usable spectrum. DOCSIS and ADSL were designed to make the most out of existing wiring plants.

To sum it up: Blame technology. :)
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Re: Why do ISP's throttle upload so much?

Postby peewee007 » Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:37 am

Damn that was good
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Re: Why do ISP's throttle upload so much?

Postby jokster » Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:56 am

10 out of 10
have a gold star
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Re: Why do ISP's throttle upload so much?

Postby Lawmanxxx » Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:46 am

Wow...great reply. I don't pretend to understand all of it but I get the gist of it. I am suitably humbled. :shock:
I suppose that ultimately, it's true that the average user has average needs. I am always so immersed in trying to get the most out of my connection that I sometimes forget that. I guess I will just have to make do with what I've got until I can get fiber optic service.... or maybe a wireless brain implant. *sigh* a guy can dream, can't he? :)
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Re: Why do ISP's throttle upload so much?

Postby MrFredPFL » Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:31 am

if you REALLY want a higher upload, you can look into something like a T1 line, which is a fully synchronous 1.5mbit connection. of course, it may cost a bit more than your current connection ;)
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Re: Why do ISP's throttle upload so much?

Postby CHEEZOR » Wed Jun 24, 2009 3:02 pm

Its already been stated, but... Nice response! :toast:
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Re: Why do ISP's throttle upload so much?

Postby Paladwyn » Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:57 pm

From what I understand, they don't really want you running web servers and such unless you are willing to pay for it. You wanna run high bandwidth servers? Here is a T1, gimmie munnies!
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Re: Why do ISP's throttle upload so much?

Postby multivariable » Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:00 pm

Lawmanxxx wrote:Wow...great reply. I don't pretend to understand all of it but I get the gist of it. I am suitably humbled. :shock:

you're welcome. taught him everything he knows. :wink:
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Re: Why do ISP's throttle upload so much?

Postby bmh67wa » Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:22 am

multivariable wrote:
Lawmanxxx wrote:Wow...great reply. I don't pretend to understand all of it but I get the gist of it. I am suitably humbled. :shock:

you're welcome. taught him everything he knows. :wink:




:lol:


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