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Vista and Floppy Drives.

Postby Paladwyn » Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:15 pm

I ran into an interesting problem that seemed to pop up today. Wonder if anybody else ran into it.

Working on a guy's old computer, which is a P2 and Win98. He needed a drive overlay for his 160GB Samsung hard drive. No biggie, done those many MANY times, but they require a floppy disc. Good thing I put those babies in all my computers.

Now, when I went to my array of drive overlay programs, found the one for Sammysungs put in the floppy disc, and hit run. Usual "Make sure it's a formatted 1.44MB Floppy disc and the write protect windows is closed", yaya...brand new floppy, I already formatted it to make sure it's good - and start it up. Vista popped up a window saying "Make sure the goddamn window is closed!!!", well...I try another disc, same thing. I take it to my copy of Server 2008 and try it. Since it is Vista core, I get the same response.

Swearing profusely, the kid actually asked if I had Tourettes Syndrome as I went upstairs to the XP machine. Grabbed the overlay off the network, put in the floppy and hit run - and it happily went and installed on the floppy.

Now, what the hell - really? I know floppies are pretty much hosed and the chances people will run into this are slim, but any tech support out there knows the value of a floppy drive.

To be clear, Vista COULD format the floppy just fine, but with Vista and this program could not recognize the fact the disc was writeable.
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Re: Vista and Floppy Drives.

Postby Ashibael » Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:27 pm

I won't say that I have ever come up against this (even as an techie myself who repairs computers for extra cash)... but really.... why does this guy need Windows 98 in the first place, let alone a 'drive overlay'.

Really, with the prices of computer hardware as low as they are right now.... why hasn't he upgraded to a 100 dollar computer that would be 10 times better than this old P2? I mean, my old computer that used Windows 95, I stripped for screws and other parts LONG ago..... it's been 10 years now!
Guy needs to update his computer or just get a new one, unless he's using it in a production environment.
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Re: Vista and Floppy Drives.

Postby Paladwyn » Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:43 pm

He does work on it and the programs he uses supports Windows 98 better than any of the newer OS's. Now, I've already been through this with a few people around here :) However, I will let him know that 98 is too unstable to be used effectively anymore. But he's been doing it this way for a while now, hard to change some things. I have lots of people around here that still hold onto 98, saying XP isn't worth their time...but time will force their hand.
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Re: Vista and Floppy Drives.

Postby MrFredPFL » Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:52 pm

Ashibael wrote:why hasn't he upgraded to a 100 dollar computer


i love it when people tell other people how to spend their money, even when they have no idea what that person's budget looks like.
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Re: Vista and Floppy Drives.

Postby Psycho Ced » Sat Jan 24, 2009 2:18 pm

Still...gotta wonder where Paladin finds these people. :D
Anyways, being set in your old ways for too long tends not to bode well in the computer industry.
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Re: Vista and Floppy Drives.

Postby Paladwyn » Sat Jan 24, 2009 2:41 pm

His budget would be more than enough to afford it - he's got other computers - but has had grief before when porting his programs over to XP - and preferred to let it be. But it's just unstable, and with a few tricks you can get XP to emulate 98 effectively.

I could still find some farmers who are using an old program based off a 286 processor that won't run on faster machines without MOSLO, or if you are running XP, you NEED DOSBOX to get it running. Old farm accounting programs they use, it's sad really, but it's their choice.
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Re: Vista and Floppy Drives.

Postby MrFredPFL » Sat Jan 24, 2009 2:54 pm

but it's their choice


bingo. their life, their computer, their software, their choice - not yours, or anyone else's. what is important to you might not mean jack to them.

i know all about those farm programs you refer to. i have some here - oddly enough, on 5.25" floppies ;)
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Re: Vista and Floppy Drives.

Postby maniac3000 » Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:33 pm

lol , i just threw out works 2 and 3 that were still in the box on both 3 inch and 5 inch floppy discs.
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Re: Vista and Floppy Drives.

Postby NocturnalVagabond » Sat Jan 24, 2009 6:29 pm

Ashibael wrote:but really.... why does this guy need Windows 98 in the first place, let alone a 'drive overlay'.
Really, with the prices of computer hardware as low as they are right now.... why hasn't he upgraded to a 100 dollar computer that would be 10 times better than this old P2?

Really, you just don't have a clue, do you?

I still have a P3 running Windows98, it's in the spare room used primarily for old games that my kids like, since they don't run on anything later than 98.
Last edited by NocturnalVagabond on Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vista and Floppy Drives.

Postby olephart » Sat Jan 24, 2009 6:34 pm

MrFredPFL wrote:
but it's their choice


bingo. their life, their computer, their software, their choice - not yours, or anyone else's. what is important to you might not mean jack to them.

i know all about those farm programs you refer to. i have some here - oddly enough, on 5.25" floppies ;)


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Re: Vista and Floppy Drives.

Postby Paladwyn » Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:01 pm

My whole point was to see if anybody else ran into the problem, not argue about the guy's finances :D
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Re: Vista and Floppy Drives.

Postby HEAT84 » Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:04 am

Paladwyn wrote:He does work on it and the programs he uses supports Windows 98 better than any of the newer OS's. Now, I've already been through this with a few people around here :) However, I will let him know that 98 is too unstable to be used effectively anymore. But he's been doing it this way for a while now, hard to change some things. I have lots of people around here that still hold onto 98, saying XP isn't worth their time...but time will force their hand.

Maybe meet halfway and upgrade to Windows 2000?
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Re: Vista and Floppy Drives.

Postby IneptVagrant » Sun Jan 25, 2009 8:24 am

I don't have floppy drives.... So how to do the same procedures w/o one?!?! Especially for those packages that say, insert new media so I can write my image to it.

Use a Virtual Floppy Drive, then copy all the files from the virtual floppy to a bootable CD, sweet!

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On the side, were vista and server 2008 both 64-bit?
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Re: Vista and Floppy Drives.

Postby Paladwyn » Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:14 am

Yes...they were indeed both 64-bit. Could have been an incompatability in that manner - but I used to have XP 64-bit that would run it ok, or atleast I think it did.

Sure, he could put win2000 on it, but it would run slow as hell...and still need a drive overlay :) He would need to upgrade the machine, then could put Win98 on it anyways. However, I still ran into many problems with trying to get Win98 to fully co-operate anyways. His whole problem for it needing to come in anyways, was the issue in which installing a certain program would just wipe out an entire branch of the registry, causing Windows to display an error saying "Error loading Explorer.EXE, youmust reinstall WIndows", sure you CAN just do a repair overtop, but since the part of the registry that was destroyed holds all the information for installed programs - well, you would need ot reinstall everything anyways, may as well do it from scratch.
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Re: Vista and Floppy Drives.

Postby tmc » Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:40 am

I think Nero has some ISO image format that is fat32 compatible.. that would seemingly be a better solution than floppy... even a cd-rw would work better than a floppy solution these days (but some OLD, OLD cd-r/cd burner drives from the p2 days couldn't read cd-rw well --crap!). And as of vista, if your sata controller's aren't covered by vista, then you bought the wrong hardware... you *MUST* be able to boot from flash drives and/or cd/dvd/blue-ray now or else your *SCREWED*. The overlapping of technology improvents is at issue too.. floppies were relevant all the way up to and including XP (even XP converted ntfs system can format floppies in fat).. move to vista.. and your machine better be up to spec.

Even the military is scrapping machines form the by-gone era of first pentium generation. Now, that's when you know it's OOOLD...
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Re: Vista and Floppy Drives.

Postby Paladwyn » Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:00 pm

Overthinking the problem there tmc :) Though I see where you are going with it, it is a very complicated solution to just having the ability to make a quick floppy disk. Not to mention, Server 2008 doesn't support Nero...so doing disc burning images is pretty much out of the question (which is one of the reasons why I'm going to put my server back to XP).

I mean, it owuld have even been just as easy to pop the files on a floppy...toss them over to the 98, and get the image creator to make the floppy there, sure that also could have worked.

It was just really interesting to see a floppy image creation program fail under Vista by not able to see the disk as write enabled...which totally threw me off. Not sure why it would even really matter - if Vista CAN read the disc, and format it - the program should be able to as well..
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Re: Vista and Floppy Drives.

Postby MrFredPFL » Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:37 pm

dunno, paladwyn. i have upgraded many machines from 98 to 2k, and i don't remember any of them suddenly running slower... :?
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Re: Vista and Floppy Drives.

Postby Psycho Ced » Sun Jan 25, 2009 2:53 pm

What are these farmer programs you talk about?
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Re: Vista and Floppy Drives.

Postby MrFredPFL » Sun Jan 25, 2009 3:37 pm

ced: most business software packages (eg quick books) don't deal well with products which grow. these are programming packages designed for farmers/ranchers. they are specifically tailored to a business whose products are alive. feeding schedules, soil conditions, etc etc etc. now, i don't know about where YOU are lol - but where pal and i are, farm magazines are common, and if you look through them, there are always ads for these packages, which, as a rule, will happily send you demo copies. i will confess - i ordered mine at the time more for the free floppies than for the code itself :P
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Re: Vista and Floppy Drives.

Postby Psycho Ced » Sun Jan 25, 2009 4:24 pm

I'm in Toronto, you'd have to choose your words "very carefully" if wanted to inquire about "farm magazines" here. :wink:
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Re: Vista and Floppy Drives.

Postby MrFredPFL » Sun Jan 25, 2009 4:44 pm

:shock: :lookup:
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Re: Vista and Floppy Drives.

Postby Fartingbob » Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:20 pm

Psycho Ced wrote:I'm in Toronto, you'd have to choose your words "very carefully" if wanted to inquire about "farm magazines" here. :wink:

I was unaware Toronto was a farm fetish hotspot. I'll make sure if im every there to not ask for such magazines!
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Re: Vista and Floppy Drives.

Postby Psycho Ced » Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:29 pm

We take all types. :|
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Re: Vista and Floppy Drives.

Postby Paladwyn » Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:46 pm

MrFredPFL wrote:dunno, paladwyn. i have upgraded many machines from 98 to 2k, and i don't remember any of them suddenly running slower... :?


I have...had these little 400 ot 500Mhz machines, IBM workstations, nice cheap little units. Win98 went on them buggers nicely. WinME slowed them down a little...not alot, but noticeable. Win2000 would put them at around a 6 minute boot time. Though, I have noticed that Win2K boots SLOWLY, but once it gets running, it's pretty spiffy... Seemed to be a general rule of thumb. I tried to find all kinds of ways to speed that boot time up - but the only way I could make them go nicely was by putting them over 128MB of ram...then they were decent. However, when I started at ym current job, I found they were using one of the machines I sold - still running 2K, runs slow as heck - as it always did, but it works.

If your computer runs 2K just fine, 98 really isn't going to run any faster though.
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