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Acer: Vista is an excuse for Microsoft price increases

Postby Maestro120 » Sat Oct 28, 2006 9:54 pm

Story : http://news.zdnet.com/2100-3513_22-6130136.html

Microsoft is raising the price of its software as it prepares to launch Vista, according to one of the leading PC manufacturers, Acer.
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Postby zbeast » Sat Oct 28, 2006 10:33 pm

Vista lineup is the Ultimate Edition, which can be preordered for 325 pounds ($614) and, again, is significantly more expensive than the XP operating system it replaces.


Phew!.. I'll pay that price for a video card, I'll pay that price for a processor. (grudgingly).
I wont pay that price for an os.
I really wont pay that for an os that I have to rebuy every time I do a motherboard upgrade.
M$ your out of your frigging mind.
Last edited by zbeast on Sun Oct 29, 2006 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby IceCube » Sun Oct 29, 2006 1:05 am

Windows Vista: $614
Mac OSX: $110
Linux (Minus RedHat): Priceless

There are some things money can't buy, for everything else, there's proprietary software. ;)
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Postby SlyckTom » Sun Oct 29, 2006 1:16 am

heh
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Postby zim » Sun Oct 29, 2006 2:31 am

I give acer a big "DUH!" for stating the obvious.
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Postby lordfoul » Sun Oct 29, 2006 3:00 am

I'm curious how MS will fair with their new OS and sales. I don't think this is going to go as well as they had hoped. :roll:
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Postby IceCube » Sun Oct 29, 2006 3:06 am

zim wrote:I give acer a big "DUH!" for stating the obvious.


I have to admit, sometimes someone needs to state the obvious for the amount of twisted truth you can find circulating around.
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Postby JayC32 » Sun Oct 29, 2006 4:04 am

AS vista is coming in a couple of flavours I dobt the home version will const that much, After all there's a price difference between XP home and pro, and between single and multiple licences. Do we know if that is a single or a multiple licence copy?

Also don't forget how much XP was when it first came out, along with the other reasons, this is another reason people waited. The price dropped after a while.

Again Ice Linux based oses are not for everyone, neither is Mac. Both have disadvantages against Windows, and yes windows have disadvantages compared to those.
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Postby P2P_G » Sun Oct 29, 2006 6:18 am

I don't give a shit about how much it costs. Cuz there are something called p2p. The problem is that its crap. I wouldn't get Vista even if it was free.
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Postby Maestro120 » Sun Oct 29, 2006 6:57 am

zim wrote:I give acer a big "DUH!" for stating the obvious.


It may be stating the obvious, but you've got to admit the "obvious" carries more weight when coming from a major PC maker as compared to IT websites/tech bloggers who Mainstream have learned to tune out as being whiners always "crying wolf".

Now if only Dell would remove its head from so far up Microsoft's ass so as to see the truth and join the chorus. Then MS will really start to sweat.
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Postby LD50% » Sun Oct 29, 2006 7:05 am

Umm, let me understand this......

A cooperation makes a massive investment to bring out their (as they see it) best ever product and they are being questioned on the price hike?

This may come as a revelation to acer types, Microsoft is a money making entity NOT a charity!

The same argument could be levelled at ANY product by any cooperate company with a return on investment price hike.

I will never need or want Vista but I have been testing it ever since the code hit the net years back, friends close and enemies closer and all that.

The Vista bashing is the same as the XP bashing was way back. Vista will be a massive success, M$ do not loose money they make it, mountains of it!

Sure Vista will be full of holes and for the time being all the new ones found will be all over the news, sound familiar?
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Postby GraphiX » Sun Oct 29, 2006 9:37 am

lets take a look into this shall we and just see how many people just do not understand what buying into vista is going to actually do to you all.

you all seem perfectly happy to pay alot of money
that has everything in place to stop you using it.

have you read any of the 86 comments on the zdnet report not a single one of them mentions the restrictions and the protections that your going to be buying into so lets re-cap.

Current Protections & Restrictions Found in Windows Vista

AACS Advanced Access Control System
AEC Automatic echo cancellation
AES Advanced Encryption Standard
APO Output Encryption Audio Processing Object
COPP Certified Output Protection Protocol
DDI device driver interface
DTCP Digital Transmission Content Protection
LFSR Linear-Feedback Shift Register
HDCP High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection
HFS Hardware Functionality Scan
ITA Input Trust Authority
OMAC One-Key Cipher Block Chaining Message Authentication Code
OTA Output Trust Authority
PAP Protected Audio Path
POC Protected Output Controller
PUMA Protected User Mode Audio
PVP Protected Video Path
PVP-OPM Protected Video Path - Output Protection Management
PVP-UAB Protected Video Path - user-accessible bus
RSA Rivest-Shamir-Adleman
SAP Secure Audio Path
SCMS Serial Copying Management System
S/PDIF Sony/Philips Digital Interchange Format
SRM System Renewability Messages
UMA User Mode Audio
VAS Virtual Audio Server
VPO Virtual Protected Output

if all that is put into vista what you think
it's been put in the new OS for? a joke? the hell of it? hell no it's all their ready to destroy everything to do with freeware/opensource and filesharing period.

and they want to sell this to you the customer to have you restricted from using your pc for the high price tag of like 400 + dollars?

lets continue shall we with the vista bomb

Vista is an OS that supports fully "TrustedComputing"
which means all DRM that has been put into hardware over the years but couldn't be activated as XP and win2k and win98se couldn't support Trustedcomputing now that new threat comes into play with Vista.

your hard-drives you've had for years the cpu's from intel/amd will have drm now activated congrats
you've now paid 400+ dollars for something that has now been able to turn your home personal pc into their own personal vending machine... and you paid for them to do it.

cannot use wmp11 to backup any DRM licence files at all

2. unless using the supreme business edition you can't store ISO's on the hdd
it will restrict you from saving and storing ISO files to the drive
this soon will mean any files that isn't DRM licenced.

3. implimented a kill switch which if your WGA fails the checks means it gives you reduced functions i.e. only the web-browser will work for 1 hr then machine shuts off

4. only operates with DirectX10 no rollbacks so unless a game supports DX10
you can't use vista until the game supports DX10 all new games are not backwards compatable either

YOU can only ever re-install the Windows Vista 1 time for the life of the licence thats right if you install your copy more than 1 time you need to buy
a re-licencing fee which the price hasn't been announced yet how nice of them sell me something i can't use at the outrageous price of 400+ dollars!

Windows XP services packs MS will not support them after 1st jan 2007
they are droping support for SP1 and SP2 and this is even before vista comes out!

in 2007 all hardware manufacters have to suport DRM into their hardware by law
else they will and can be fined and shut down if they fail to co-operate with the industry

-----------

Microsoft: Upgraded Motherboard = New Windows Licence

Microsoft recently made a change to the licence agreement saying that a new motherboard is equal to a new computer, hence you need to purchase a new Windows licence.

Here is what Microsoft has to say:

"An upgrade of the motherboard is considered to result in a "new personal computer" to which Microsoft® OEM operating system software cannot be transferred from another computer. If the motherboard is upgraded or replaced for reasons other than a defect, then a new computer has been created and the license of new operating system software is required."

The reason Microsoft gave for this term is that "Microsoft needed to have one base component "left standing" that would still define that original PC. Since the motherboard contains the CPU and is the "heart and soul" of the PC, when the motherboard is replaced (for reasons other than defect) a new PC is essentially created."

Microsoft sent a memo to its OEM partners asking them to enforce this new policy, every time they upgrade a computer for a client.

Vista is locking out 3rd party companys from making anti-virus tools
and internet firewalls also Vista isn't going to allow any 3rd party debuging tools
They are also going to try and stop tools by 3rd partys that help you backup.

thats right Symantec Ghost/Acronis wont work when trying to make a restore image
not only that but they are locking out hundreds of other useful tools.

for instance unlocker vx.xx that helps you unlock a process wont work no more
they are not allowing you to use Caldra DOS, or DR DOS no more.

i've wrote enough now hope you understand by upgrading and installing vista your going to destory the bittorent/p2p/ and filesharing community dead.

Maxtor/Seagate have had DRM built into their hdd
for the past 5 years

Intel have DRM built into their cpu's and now
AMD also have joined the bandwagon

all this hardwire DRM in hardware will only be activated by a TrustedComputing platform"
and Vista is this platform.

now still wanna pay 400 + dollars for all this?
when it does nothing to benifit you at all?
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Postby P2P_G » Sun Oct 29, 2006 9:43 am

GraphiX, i vote for your post! :)
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Postby Trumpeldor » Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:09 am

i second that vote
GraphiX for the pirate party
(and i don't mean the one that have pirates celebrating, but the one running for parlament...)
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Postby JayC32 » Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:10 am

Graphix let's take a look at it like this: You don't have to buy Vista, even the Christmas rush for PC sales will not have it on. Simple answer to those complaining about the price.

Ms have every right to protect their products from illegal use and to make up a price for it we have every right not to buy it if we don't agree with either. I take it then that if you have a job, Graphix and P2P, you do it for free. If not why should any business?

There will be various flavours of Vista at different prices, just like there are two flavours of XP. Therefore the prices will vary, for crying out loud look at what some of the speculated prices were for XP I remember £200 being mentioned at one time (approx $374 US) and that was years ago.

Yes LD I remember hearing exactly the same arguments about XP. It didn't take long for it to be craked and hacked for customisation. The same will more than likely happen to Vista, MSs past record at preventing such things is lousey.

MS will be releasing the kernal to third party AV and firewall companies as they have taken heat over it, full page ads in newspapers didn't help them. If they tried to lock them out they could look forward to another visit to the courts for breaking monopoly laws, at least in the EU which hasn't shown any fear of doing it.

I don't like MS dominance in the market but there are no real viable alternatives for everyday average PC users. Before anyone mentions Linux average users play games, big stumbling block. Nor are they as easy to cinfigure straight out of the box so to speak. Until these are overcome Linux based oses will always be minority players and niche market items. I like linux by the way.
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Postby GraphiX » Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:41 am

ah so they are telling me what is illegal?

im not talking about pirating MS itself im talking about the 31 restrictions built into the OS that is controling what they beleive i shouldn't be doing with the OS

like removing every single trace of fair use from being used by the user.

how dare just how dare them try and play god
it's 1 thing them telling me they have provisions to stop people pirating MS software their own

but trying to control the entire worlds copyrights?
how do they even pretend to know what is legal or not

this is what i have a gripe about
why should they try and protect everyone else when everyone elses company/prodcuts have nothing at all to do with them.

and your paying for this? pffft.
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Postby LD50% » Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:41 am

I use openBSD and Linux for everything, but I still think Vista will be a massive hit DRM or not!

Name one thing M$ have done that has failed to sell (note: failed to sell, not failed to work properly) and make lots of cash for Mr Gates?

Edit: because..
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Postby GraphiX » Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:54 am

never said it wouldn't sell LD

i said people wont be-able to use it
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Postby LD50% » Sun Oct 29, 2006 11:06 am

GraphiX wrote:never said it wouldn't sell LD

i said people wont be-able to use it


No WE won't be able to use it! Average user will love it.
I agree it suck's, but it will sell and it will dominate. Shame really it could have been M$'s shining moment, but they fuk'd it, as always.
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Postby TorrentMama » Sun Oct 29, 2006 11:19 am

GraphiX, that was a really great post. Thanks for taking the time to share that information with everyone.
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Postby GraphiX » Sun Oct 29, 2006 11:25 am

your welcome mate if it's just 1 more person
i could actually get the news about vista too
that is 1 more person to boycott it.

it will end all filesharing/torrents/
it will end up only allowing licenced files DRM'd
to even be stored up-on a hard-drive

you can all sit there and say no im wrong yada yada
and you can sit there saying blah that wont happen

we'll you could of said the same about everything that has happened this year look at it now.

Vista is the vesel for TrustedComputing


it's a virus that will destroy filesharing.
and thats a fact.

you say.. the advarage user will love it?
didn't i see a report stating that 85+% of all
internet traffic is that of bittorrent?

so thats 85% of the world using torrents so they are to me what you'd call "WE US they are US" there is only so much legal stuff to download on torrents so they must be doing what WE US do correct?

so thats 85% of the world that WONT be-able to us it
so thats like what 10-15% of users that will?

yea can see this being a big hit
Last edited by GraphiX on Sun Oct 29, 2006 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Doobie » Sun Oct 29, 2006 11:31 am

LD50% wrote:Microsoft is a money making entity NOT a charity!


Microsoft is a government-protected monopoly, so they're able to force us to buy things we don't want to buy, from DRM to IE, at inflated prices. Yeah, there's Linux, but it remains DOA on the desktop because it lacks compatibility with industry standard software - which it can't have because of the government.
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Postby GraphiX » Sun Oct 29, 2006 11:50 am

its like a Eppisode of "invasion"

they are going to make XP extinct through drivers forceware)and new products and games coming to the market which is going to force you to upgrade.

they are defeating piracy without even fighting it
they are making the first 100% un-crackable solution.
which also is removing all fairuse rights too

all the p2p/ftp/newsgroups/torrent sites/forums pirate rings will still be sharing and trading pirated stuff (Games wise) but none of it will
be-able to be used as if you dont have Vista you cant play DX10 games

if you do have vista it's locked so tight with DRM that you wont be-able to play it without a Licence else it will refuse to execute or install...

and if you dont have DX10 or vista it forces you to upgrade to a OS that will restrict you playing or using anything you download lol

its like an invasion and to top that
your giving money to MS to do this too you.
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Postby Doobie » Sun Oct 29, 2006 11:58 am

The more important price point is the OEM price and the special prices big OEMs get. This matters because very few people (and only the ignorant) buy retail copies.

Microsoft doesn't want to open the door to Linux in low-end retail PCs.
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Postby Fartingbob » Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:24 pm

GraphiX wrote:2. unless using the supreme business edition you can't store ISO's on the hdd
it will restrict you from saving and storing ISO files to the drive
this soon will mean any files that isn't DRM licenced.

4. only operates with DirectX10 no rollbacks so unless a game supports DX10
you can't use vista until the game supports DX10 all new games are not backwards compatable either

YOU can only ever re-install the Windows Vista 1 time for the life of the licence thats right if you install your copy more than 1 time you need to buy
a re-licencing fee which the price hasn't been announced yet how nice of them sell me something i can't use at the outrageous price of 400+ dollars!

Windows XP services packs MS will not support them after 1st jan 2007
they are droping support for SP1 and SP2 and this is even before vista comes out!

for your first point, that is incorrect, it wont actaully try and stop you from saving iso files on your HDD. Its just int he licence it says you cant create a iso of the vista disc. There is no evidence this will be enforced via software hidden in the OS, and anything not the vista disc will be fine to make an ISO of.
As about DX10 only, Ms made DX9L for vista to run all DX9 stuff as well did they not? So vista will be able to run all the games and programs that need DX to run.
XP SP! support is being stopped, but SP2 support will continue for at least a few years. I dont know where you got that idea from. And the pro version will probably have support for even longer, since businesses need security updates etc.

I dont like vista, but half of what you said was misleading or incorrect.
The fact that not one of the 90+ comments on ZDnet mentioned all the DRM restrictions shows that in fact most of the public wont be hugely effected by this in built DRM support. It will only be annoying for a few, and those are liklely to either find ways round it or be using a different OS altogether.
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