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Postby Psycho Ced » Sun Aug 07, 2005 2:57 am

Mel_Smiley_VIP wrote:Its amazing how people who have no idea what they are talkng about just have to make a comment.

Hmmm wonder who they learned that from?

Mel_Smiley_VIP wrote: Winmx is showing no signs of dying or fading out. It doesn't need an update either, it just needs idiots to shut their mouths about things they have no clue about.

Lets see; if we say nothing its magically fine? No it does not need upgrades justs a horde of third party plugins! And Mel you should lead by example.

Mel_Smiley_VIP wrote:Show some kinda facts that its dying, I can show you were I'm downloading movies at a constant rate, between 100B/s and 250B/s for days at a time.

I could just as easily say "Show some kinda Facts that it is not" I don't want to think of the kinds of movies you download but I can't seem to find the sources for my songs that I use to.


True that it takes about half a day to get up to speed but once it gets going it doesn't stop. Running 24/7 is key.

I'm comparing it by sources not by speeds


Mel_Smiley_VIP wrote:Next you guys will say all P2P is dying except for (your favorite client here).

Ok!
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Postby Dazzle » Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:39 am

I have a way of monitoring the network using a custom made tool that only a handful of folks have and its mainly used to determine the extent of the flooding on the system but using this tool and other data, it is possible to calculate the network density from the data collected/peer cache refresh rates.
I have seen before how folks are treated here when research statistics are presented, but if the network was on its last legs
(as some seem to wish :roll: ) then that would be blindingly apparent.

Being honest here, I have however seen a drop in user density over the last 6 months, and this can be put down to some success for the Cartels scare tactics and effective flooding, but a broader look across many p2p systems shows the same drop, save for BT, which seems to have outstripped them all.

What Mel Smiley and myself seem to agree on is this simple fact, you can go on knocking winmx all day, but we will still use it because we know how to defeat many of the industry tricks, as do many of the users and those that need help get it from the many winmx support sites, no one is ever forced to use it and if new users are more in tune with Limewire, spymesh etc then good luck to them.

Having personally helped many to set up BT and other clients, I am of the opinion that many winmx users are well educated and realistic regarding their p2p activities, the all singing and dancing client it is not.
This translates into a hard core of users that will not jump on the latest offering without checking the liability factor, because the reality is this, how many winmx users have been sued set against the figures for the other networks.
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Postby Mel_Smiley_VIP » Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:28 am

Thanks dazzle. Also I have many connections with "friends" on winmx. This is something that I find lacking in other programs. Programs that to me, lack any heart in the P2P world. While connecting with friends may not be 100% safe, because the government is a tricky bitch, it makes me feel a bit better to upload to a person I know or who is willing to provide me a download. Just my opinion but winmx is for true blue P2P users, and not for people who never provide new content or support.


@ Psycho Ced

I don't jump in every thread with something to say, I rarely post and then I only post to lay the level on the line. I'm not blind to some aspects of P2P as some people seem to be. I do lead as I don't follow the normal BS that gets posted in every single freakin' thread. I speak the truth and some just do not want to hear it or are so blinded by an agenda to see past the nose on their face.
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Postby Psycho Ced » Sun Aug 07, 2005 1:19 pm

Well Mel I was a big WinMX user; If it was not for WinMX I would never have found this site. And I Reinstall it on my system from time to time to check it out and I have definately noticed that it is not what it used to be and have also read other peoples experiences for quite some time.

My agenda's here really don't go past the prospect of getting free stuff.
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Postby Mel_Smiley_VIP » Sun Aug 07, 2005 2:30 pm

Psycho Ced wrote:Well Mel I was a big WinMX user; If it was not for WinMX I would never have found this site. And I Reinstall it on my system from time to time to check it out and I have definately noticed that it is not what it used to be and have also read other peoples experiences for quite some time.




I will agree that for music there are much better options, fakes have become too much of a problem. To get music I use Bearshare lite which works wonders for me.

My agenda's here really don't go past the prospect of getting free stuff.


Thats all I want too. Im just saying that I don't try to come up with reasons other than that for why I'm downloading.
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Postby Allied » Sun Aug 07, 2005 2:44 pm

It seems like OpenNAp is useless too. The newest windows client was released January 14, 2005
http://www.slyck.com/prog.php?id=208

The WinMX developers really should address the problem.
Shareaza, KCeasy, BitComet, eDoneky, eMule, they all have forums where the developers talk to the fans. WinMX is a faceless program.
Allied's Review:
Recommended: LimeWire | Ares | Shareaza | eMule | KCeasy
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Postby Trev0r269 » Sun Aug 07, 2005 2:59 pm

I don't mean to nitpick but opennap is actually still useful for me. It seems opennap is still used in italy a lot, and I can get fresh electronic music from Europe with Winlop (windows port of lopster) accessing opennap. WinMX also isn't so good at connecting to opennap, it gets blocked from a lot of servers.
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Postby bmh67wa » Sun Aug 07, 2005 3:27 pm

Allied wrote:It seems like OpenNAp is useless too. The newest windows client was released January 14, 2005
http://www.slyck.com/prog.php?id=208

The WinMX developers really should address the problem.


Actually the link you posted is for SlavaNap which is a server program and not a client for sharing like WinMX is. I'm not sure why SlavaNap is listed as an OpenNap client here. Can someone fix this? That page is also out of date as the current version is build 119 and was released in May. There have been no changes to the Nap protocol to warrant any client changes to programs that access OpenNap servers so any updates to WinMX will only affect their own internal network unless they actually do something with the queuing method used. That has been incompatable with "pure" OpenNap clients for some time now and favors client transfers among WinMX users only and not with other OpenNap clients. This is one of the biggest complaints that OpenNap server owners have with WinMX and some have even chosen to ban this client. Unfortunately, this has caused the demise of some good networks as 90% of it's users are using WinMX because they either don't care or don't want to take the time to learn a new program or don't have the know-how to do so. :cry:
Last edited by bmh67wa on Sun Aug 07, 2005 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Sylph420 » Sun Aug 07, 2005 3:37 pm

I still use it and I'd like to say that WinMX is far from dying. Never once have I had a problem with either bandwidth or searches.
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Postby e-caps » Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:22 pm

raar wrote:
e-caps wrote:
raar wrote:I still have it on the computer, but have been playing around with Limewire the last few days.
Up until then, I've used WinMX and probably will til it completely dies. I'm a die-hard I guess.
Hey, it still works, right?

I used limewire once and I had to clean my hard drive just to remove it, never again will I try that program.


For my own info, why did you want to remove it? What didn't you like about it? Anything I should be aware of? Why was it so hard to remove?
And if you know, what is the "thumbs" file that shows up in the folder and on my desktop?

Well first to each his own, and i hope it works great for you. But that thumbs file showed up for me and that when i tried to uninstall it. Everytime I turn on my system it was there. Also file same so hard to get using it, but i'm not the only who had this problem the guy who told me about it system crash too. So I say good luck hope all works out for you :?
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Postby Dazzle » Sun Aug 07, 2005 7:30 pm

E Caps, the "thumbs" file that you are talking about it placed into each file you have any sort of picture in by the operating system, most folks dont see it as they have system files hidden in settings, it is nothing to worry about and is purely to help windows show you little versions of picture inside the folder (Called "thumb nail pics" or "thumbs" for short )
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Postby Foo » Sun Aug 07, 2005 8:02 pm

But seriously Mel... you're saying WinMX isn't dying then go on to state you have to run it 24/7 to get it to perform well.

You understand that the popularisation of P2P is what makes it a sucess, right? How many people would choose to run a filesharing client 24/7? relatively few.

How many newcomers would pick up WinMX, try it, find it's absolutely shit out of the box, then stick with it until they figure out that it needs constant running? Pretty much nil.

So it's fucked. What's more, it's not been updated in a very long time (the interface SUCKS), the file results are comparable to Kazaa... in fact, you could say almost anything about WinMX and it'd apply to Kazaa as well, except for it not being as popular.

Dying.
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Postby N04h » Sun Aug 07, 2005 11:25 pm

winmx is dying but there are still lots of Japanese pople on it, meaning its good for finding japanese music etc.
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Postby Psycho Ced » Mon Aug 08, 2005 12:22 am

N04h wrote:winmx is dying but there are still lots of Japanese pople on it, meaning its good for finding japanese music etc.

Speaking of the Japanese;
what is going on with Winny and Share?
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Postby Mel_Smiley_VIP » Mon Aug 08, 2005 1:22 am

Foo wrote:But seriously Mel... you're saying WinMX isn't dying then go on to state you have to run it 24/7 to get it to perform well.

You understand that the popularisation of P2P is what makes it a sucess, right? How many people would choose to run a filesharing client 24/7? relatively few.

How many newcomers would pick up WinMX, try it, find it's absolutely shit out of the box, then stick with it until they figure out that it needs constant running? Pretty much nil.




How many use Emule? Duh! Winmx has always worked that way. ITs not for the average file sharer as Ive said already. It a community based app. Its like having a shitload of friends who like swapping files. Its not for everyone and thats why some people don't understand. If Im getting 20 - 40 gigs a week thats not bad since I download movies only. Please let the users answer the question. We are just trying to tell you why its not dying, which is just a silly thing to say at any rate, No networks are really dying when it comes down to it. Its like youre mad at winmx for some reason.

Most users DO NOT WANT AN UPDATE!!!! We LIKE IT THE WAY IT IS!

Thats why I've kept up with contacts on the network for 4 years or so. Will you just listen to the users and take our word for it, we don't want any new people on the network! Winmx is for serious 'groups' who know more than the average user. I hope noobs hate the network, all the better. Its all about hard core groups that most people can't be a part of. There will always be a great user base on winmx, in the movie selection anyways, because there are plenty of people who do not care for the others apps of the day. This is all wasted breath as I know it falls on deaf ears. I'll just agree to disagree and keep downloading tons of awesome movies.
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Postby Psycho Ced » Mon Aug 08, 2005 2:59 am

Mel_Smiley_VIP wrote: No networks are really dying when it comes down to it.

I think shrinking might be a better term. Many people may be using these terms somewhat loosely.
Networks shrink or expand over the years. KaZaA has shrunk but I would not say it was dying.
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Postby Foo » Mon Aug 08, 2005 4:39 am

Mel_Smiley_VIP wrote:How many use Emule? Duh! Winmx has always worked that way. ITs not for the average file sharer as Ive said already. It a community based app. Its like having a shitload of friends who like swapping files. Its not for everyone and thats why some people don't understand. If Im getting 20 - 40 gigs a week thats not bad since I download movies only. Please let the users answer the question. We are just trying to tell you why its not dying, which is just a silly thing to say at any rate, No networks are really dying when it comes down to it. Its like youre mad at winmx for some reason.

Most users DO NOT WANT AN UPDATE!!!! We LIKE IT THE WAY IT IS!

Thats why I've kept up with contacts on the network for 4 years or so. Will you just listen to the users and take our word for it, we don't want any new people on the network! Winmx is for serious 'groups' who know more than the average user. I hope noobs hate the network, all the better. Its all about hard core groups that most people can't be a part of. There will always be a great user base on winmx, in the movie selection anyways, because there are plenty of people who do not care for the others apps of the day. This is all wasted breath as I know it falls on deaf ears. I'll just agree to disagree and keep downloading tons of awesome movies.


Mel, I see what you're saying but I think you've missed the point. I can pick many other networks, games, applications and chat networks which still have a small solid core of hardcore users, but that doesn't mean they're not dead. What I (and I think others) here class as dead is a project where the bulk of users have moved on to something newer. A new file network, a prettier game, a more robust file network etc etc.

I'll concede that by your terms, for a dedicated user with time and willing to dedicate to the network, the network is still good and alive. However that depends on you also agreeing that by my definition the network is dying if not dead.

Otherwise I think we're arguing over semantics.
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Postby Mel_Smiley_VIP » Mon Aug 08, 2005 5:26 am

Round and round we go! lol
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Postby Foo » Mon Aug 08, 2005 6:32 am

*shrug* Fair enough.
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Postby Dazzle » Mon Aug 08, 2005 7:15 am

Foo, your opinions regarding winmx are just that.. opinions.
I pay you respect on the fact that you have not come here to advertise another client, but to be honest p2p systems come and go and only improve with time, the fact of the simple matter is this, is there something on the market that fits this simple set of criteria that I will outline

1)Free of cost and spyware
2)Uses a decentralised network
3)Has some sort of obscuring of file Users addresses
4)A reasonable search function
5)Has a chat function
6)Has active users

I along with many here try all sorts of p2p systems and some are great in many areas and some take a nose dive, thats life, but basically winmx works well, and while it does, folks like me will stick with it, it does not need third party items but they are available, this allows the programmer of the client freedom from having to update every time a new fad comes along.
It has one drawback and that is that it is suseptible to the flooding attacks due to the way the network is configured, it is not the only client/network afflicted like this,and the solution is available to dampen that down in the guise of Peer Guardian 2, user education is all that prevents the entire network from being clean of these ON Systems/Globix parasites.

To all folks reading this please remember if you put all your eggs in one basket then you only have yourself to blame when they all get smashed at once, many baskets for us all is a good plan, use whatever takes your fancy but please use.
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Postby coleisgone » Mon Aug 08, 2005 7:54 am

Going by the amount of channels and the amount of users in those channels i'd say WinMx was far from over, yeah sure Limewire is probably better, but then Limewire users would say that (mines is afterall better that yours :-P ) For small files (i.e. mp3's + appz) it's still ok and if you can get in on one of the clans/channels you can get good comparative speeds for the big files but the queuing systems is rather anti-p2p don't ya think.
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Postby Widdle » Mon Aug 08, 2005 7:56 am

To all those MX users that love the community factor (I am one of you!). Why not have a dual presence on WinMX and Ares? The program offers everything that WinMX does plus a faster network, more stable and advanced chat connections, and without the search floods or fake files (secure hashing). I still use WinMX, and probably always will. I just see an alternative for the community that I believe could do it good. My connection is routinely maxed out when downloading off of Ares, something I can only say has happend once or twice in the 4 years that I have been an MX user.

Just looking for info from some of the MX hawks out there on this prospect.
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Postby hexen » Mon Aug 08, 2005 2:16 pm

Widdle wrote:To all those MX users that love the community factor (I am one of you!). Why not have a dual presence on WinMX and Ares? The program offers everything that WinMX does plus a faster network, more stable and advanced chat connections, and without the search floods or fake files (secure hashing). I still use WinMX, and probably always will. I just see an alternative for the community that I believe could do it good. My connection is routinely maxed out when downloading off of Ares, something I can only say has happend once or twice in the 4 years that I have been an MX user.

Just looking for info from some of the MX hawks out there on this prospect.


I am sure many of us WinMX-users have tried Ares. I have at least and I can explain to you why I left it. It is very similar to MX, but it had some flaws that all in all made me leave it again. First of all, the whole channel list was often hard to get; I found myself refreshing a few times before it worked (I ran Ares Lite client with opened ports). Second, the content was mostly mainstream. While MX also has turned more mainstream, there is still some odd files to pick out. On Ares I found mostly the regular "Top40-content". Third, the hashing may be secure, but it's very slow. For a user who shares 2000+ files, it can become annoying to re-hash many changed files before being able to go unto a chat channel and start sharing. Fourth, the way you browse people annoyed me. Some users I could browse directly, but with most I had to establish something called a "direct connection" with the user, and THEN browse. Many users just closed the connection before I even had the chance to browse them. Fifth, my computer locked itself when I tried to defragment the hard drive and use Ares at the same time. This is a problem for me only of course, I use automatic defrag, but it's still a drawback worth mentioning.

So what are the good things about Ares?
1. Easy to use; point, click and share
2. Fairly light on resources
3. Stable client; no crashes
4. You can search for files in channels
5. Chat function: wide selection
6. Folder-browse function
7. Easy to configure ports

And some other minor common features.

All in all, this network had very little to offer me file-wise. WinMX is also terribly mainstream nowadays, but the channels are the key to more quality content. WinMX is far more customizable and enables you to use OpenNap if wanted.

I can however COMPLETELY understand those who find the WinMX network less good than what it used to be. It was much better 2 years ago and the fact still remains: eMule and other networks hold much more rare content, content you can be certain to get in the end.
What is most important in this discussion is the goal. What is our goal with running X client? Some seem to only care for features and interface. Others want the files, nothing else. Some love to share, not to take. Others only want to chat. Most probably enjoy doing both. I think this is what creates most of the unnecessary comments in this thread. A user who only cares about the population rate of a network will naturally disagree with a user who cares more for the content of files.

WinMX useless? Depends on what areas you attack it on, but all in all, no network is 100% useless. And I agree with Dazzle from a pro-p2p-view: Keep all eggs in one basket if you like, but don't cry when Mr. R*AA smashes them all. You see, the more networks we (WE as in all filesharers worldwide) use, the harder it will be for the bureaucratic organizations to stop our activities. I'm not going to hold a speech/rant this time, but I talk from the experience that it's POSITIVE to try out an album before buying it. If it goes out of print, I see no reason till why the music can't stay online for free.
It's always amusing to see how many users who love to argue and take stands on which clients are "the best", which networks to "worship". We're all human beings, we're all filesharers (hopefully) and we all know the reasons till why we refuse to give in on the laws this time. You can always discuss search functions, chat reliability and so forth, and this is in my opinion interesting. The problem is when people forget the reason till why the use the client in the first place.
Remember, we share to share, not to make ourself "different" or "special" in software-discussions.
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Postby zim » Mon Aug 08, 2005 2:20 pm

my computer locked itself when I tried to defragment the hard drive and use Ares at the same time.


why in the world would you expect that to work? especially using windows built in defragment.




:lol:
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Postby raar » Mon Aug 08, 2005 2:39 pm

Well, this has become an interesting discussion!
I'm just here to give my report on Limewire.

Firstly, most of the files are 128 bitrate. That kinda sucks.

Secondly, when looking up an artist, most of the songs by this artist are non-existant. They will have like 5 or 6 songs and that's it.

Thirdly, there aren't that many albums by artists.

Fourthly, there aren't that many search results. On WinMX I can get up to 2,000 results on opennap. On Limewire I think it got about 400. And those were all the same 5 or 6 songs. doh!

The multi-source speeds on Limewire were great. That's about all I can see that rocks there, since the opennap system on WinMX doesn't use multi-source and opennap is about all the search results bring back these days, if using it.

Limewire seems a bit heavier on system resources.

But all in all, I think I will stick with WinMX for now. Glad I tried Limewire, though. I've been pretty stuck with WinMX, not trying anything else.
It works and I get what I want, so until it has no results in my search, I'll stick with it.
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