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Defragmentation issues

Postby Ratt » Sat Oct 07, 2006 7:16 am

Strangely, Windows defragmenter is unable to defragment part of the files I have (recently) downloaded with eMule. We're talking about 12 video files, around 200 MB each.

I've tried booting into Safe Mode, but it's the same there. (I haven't tried 3rd party defragmenters yet, that may be my next step, but even if that works, it doesn't explain why Windows Defrag is having trouble with these). I regularly run at least 5 different spyware and trojan scanners, so that's not it either (in other words, the files are not in use by any program or the system).

My own theory so far: this is some sort of bug in eMule's "run eMule as an unprivileged user" feature (it's a fairly recent security feature). I enabled it a few weeks ago; all the files in question were DLed after that. The files themselves are no longer inside eMule's incoming folder, of course, so technically they are no longer confined to the control of the Windows "eMule" account created by eMule.

Disabling the feature in eMule has not made any difference so far, but still this is the most likely culprit IMO.

Defragmenting these video files should work; it's very strange. Has anyone encountered something similar?
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Postby Mel_Smiley_VIP » Sat Oct 07, 2006 7:34 am

Defraggin video files sounds strange to me. A video file should not be fragmented. Why not try burning these files as data to a CD or DVD and then try running defrag on your hard drive.

What message are you getting when defrag stops?
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Postby Ratt » Sat Oct 07, 2006 7:38 am

The defragmenter runs far too quickly (only a few minutes) and it says "Windows could not defragment certain files..." with a list of the video files in question attached (and no other files in there).

I am therefore stuck at a fragmentation level of 19%, which is not a major problem itself but could become one if the fragmentation keeps rising.

I was under the impression that apart from the pagefile and certain registry files, Windows should be able to defragment the whole drive including video, no? I always have lots of video files on my drive yet this is the first time any of them show up like this during defrag...
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Postby Mel_Smiley_VIP » Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:03 am

Yes, it should be able to defrag the whole drive. I was trying to say that fully downloaded video files should not be fragmented and should be one whole file, therefore all in one place, but actually I don't think thats correct now that I think about it. Multi source downloads could be messy. Its beyond me, maybe someone else can help.

When you analyze your disc does windows tell you to run defrag? Have you tried running scan disc and seeing if any errors show up?
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Postby zbeast » Sat Oct 07, 2006 9:44 am

The trouble your having is that you don't have enough remaining space on your drive to preform the defrag.

Your trying to turn a bus around in an alleyway.
It's not going to work mate.
Last edited by zbeast on Sat Oct 07, 2006 10:38 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Ratt » Sat Oct 07, 2006 10:20 am

Mel_Smiley_VIP wrote:When you analyze your disc does windows tell you to run defrag? Have you tried running scan disc and seeing if any errors show up?


Yes, Windows recommends to defrag every time. No chkdsk errors, although I haven't done a surface scan yet.

zBeast wrote:The trouble your having is that you don't have enough remaining space on your drive to preform the defrag.


I know that lack of space can indeed be an obstacle to defragmentation. But then I have 10 gb left on a 80 gb drive (and that too is a long-standing constant for me). Seems like it should be enough, but I'll try freeing up another 10 gb or more and try again...
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Postby lion7718 » Sat Oct 07, 2006 10:25 am

XP needs 15% free space to Defrag.....
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Postby JayC32 » Sat Oct 07, 2006 10:45 am

Which means you need atleast 12GB to defrag, more is better. Burn some files to DVD and delete them to create space and then defrag the drive.
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Postby quick » Sat Oct 07, 2006 1:30 pm

I’m dealing with the same issue, and as of not having enough space, I don’t thing that’s the problem at least not in my case.
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Postby lion7718 » Sat Oct 07, 2006 1:45 pm

quick wrote:I’m dealing with the same issue, and as of not having enough space, I don’t thing that’s the problem at least not in my case.


When you Defrag with under 15%...you should get a popup saying that you don't have enough space & it might not Defrag 100%....it will Defrag most of the time anyway..but not all files will.
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Postby zim » Sat Oct 07, 2006 6:15 pm

you need enough free space equal to PLUS about 10-15% of the largest file that needs defragged.
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Postby IneptVagrant » Sun Oct 08, 2006 12:03 am

Contig will defrag any file, or set of files. (26KB stand alone freeware)

To defrag all .avi files on c: run

contig -c -s C:\*.avi

Works best if your free space is continuous. But doesn't nessaccarily need to be. I found this while trying to defrag a 4 gig file that was in over 4k fragments, when I only had about 4.5 Gigs free. So I used another defrag prog to create continuous space, and contig to defrag the large file. Eventually ended up with the 4 gig file in 3 fragsments, which was close enough.

*******

Personally, I've chosen to create a seperate partition to DL files to, then copy them to another partition. The copying will unfragment the files.
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Postby DownWithAdmins » Sun Oct 08, 2006 12:21 am

The REAL problem youre running into is the program youre using......WINDOWS DEFRAG..

Drop that program and start using 0&0 defrag or Diskeeper to defrag, they do a way better job
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Postby lion7718 » Sun Oct 08, 2006 12:43 am

DownWithAdmins wrote:start using 0&0 defrag


I use O&O also sometimes...when I have time...
Windows takes about 7-10 min....O&O takes like an hour...at least for me it does.
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Postby zim » Sun Oct 08, 2006 12:48 am

windoze defrag works just fine unless you're real uptight and obsessive about it...

:lol:
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Postby Mel_Smiley_VIP » Sun Oct 08, 2006 1:21 am

zim wrote:windoze defrag works just fine unless you're real uptight and obsessive about it...

:lol:



I agree. I don't think there is a wonder defrag program that can do magic.
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Postby zim » Sun Oct 08, 2006 2:16 am

yup. always gonna be some fragmentation if you actually USE your pc. you can get it down to a minimum tho if you split things up onto diffrent drives. and like iv said.. download to one drive and copy to another. keeps things pretty clean.

use of a ramdrive for all temp crap works wonders too. especially browser cache.
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Postby Ratt » Sun Oct 08, 2006 12:25 pm

Meanwhile (it took some time to do my testing) I'm at 22% free space now, and the same files are still not defraggable. In fact, other additional video files are now showing up in the 'error' list, including two eMule .part files.

I'll try freeing up more space. Next, I'm going to run Windows Defrag at boottime (there is a tool to do this), then I will try one of those other programs mentioned in the thread (O&O Defrag, however, has corrupted some of my files in the past, when I let it run in the background all the time, so I won't be using that one...)
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Postby Repzak » Sun Oct 08, 2006 1:38 pm

This is a bit of a long shot, but there may not be enough continuous free space on your drive - WIndows Defragmenter stinks at defragmenting free space - and as a result often won't defragment large files.

This is the real advantage of using a real defrag program (like the full Diskeeper) - they do have options and features that Windows defrag simply doesn't have. Windows Defrag is fine for keeping your drive decently clean - it's not like a bit of fragmentation in a few large video files will matter one whit to your computer speed, even though it'll look like a bad percentage. But if you want everything defragmented it will never do the job properly for you.
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Postby Ratt » Sun Oct 08, 2006 2:04 pm

Yes, you may be right the continuous free space. With 29 percent free space total, I can finally get the percentage of fragmentation down to 10 percent, which is certainly acceptable. But a number of video files remain fragmented.

It's strange, though: I used to be able to defrag (almost) my whole drive, even with lots of video on it and little free space. Something radically changed compared to three months ago, and it's not my downloading habits...
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Postby napho » Sun Oct 08, 2006 2:42 pm

Why would you want to defrag movies anyway? They work fine "fragmented". Defragging is overrated in general, and defragging video is unnecessary.
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Postby MrFredPFL » Sun Oct 08, 2006 3:03 pm

i think the word you want is actually "contiguous" ;)

but i agree, defragging is overrated and i think this is much ado about nothing.
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Postby zim » Sun Oct 08, 2006 3:08 pm

reading of heavily fragmented files decreases drive lifespan. while makeing things a little slower to load / run.
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Postby napho » Sun Oct 08, 2006 5:10 pm

I agree with these guys http://www.mcse.ms/archive54-2005-1-1303533.html

Anyway, I find that my HD is never heavily fragmented, and most of it is video files.
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Postby bkman » Mon Oct 09, 2006 1:21 am

A probable reason for the fragmentation of your emule files is that they were created with the "sparse" attribute. You can turn this off in the advanced options.

As for defragmenting properly, you should try Raxco PerfectDisk. Best defrag app around.
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