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Postby notbob » Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:25 am

Allied wrote:eXeem was built from scratch. It doesn't violate any laws.


i'm sure it will be decompiled, stripped, and compared soon, if not already

"closed source" is only as good as its packaging
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Postby LocK » Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:50 am

trub wrote:First of all, they have said quite clearly, it will be closed source only, supported by adware, once it is out of beta. They said Linux is out of the question, mac is a very slight possibility.

I swiped a copy of their howto if anyone is still interested, and uploaded here: http://rorexrobots.com/ex

You'd think they'd be more open, having built on bittorrent, which is opensource itself, but no.


*sighs*
You'd think that when I write up a tutorial for the people that are supposed to be in the beta, it would stay there. There's a reason the beta forum is not visible for non-testers. Now we have people posting screenshots of the program without the GUI, and people are making random assumptions about a program that they haven't even used before.

My suggestion to everyone who hasn't used eXeem yet: just wait, and try it out when it comes out. Decide if you like it then.
For anyone who is in eXeem and is posting pictures/information, if we find out who you are on Suprnova Forums, you will be banned. You were accepted as a beta tester, and agreed not to share information or screenshots.

[edit] trub has been banned permanently, and his eXeem key has been removed.
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Postby Leiflvr » Sat Dec 04, 2004 2:27 am

Lock I hate to say it, but you guys should've limited the access to existing and "trusted" forum members. Allowing noobs to participate was a mistake IMHO. But then again hindsight is 20/20.
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Postby LocK » Sat Dec 04, 2004 2:34 am

Leiflvr wrote:Lock I hate to say it, but you guys should've limited the access to existing and "trusted" forum members. Allowing noobs to participate was a mistake IMHO. But then again hindsight is 20/20.


For the first couple of beta versions, only very trusted members that had been on the forum for a while were testing. :wink:

But we're at the point where we need to test it with a large number of users, and there's no way to pull 5k "trusted" people off the forums.
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Postby red duck » Sat Dec 04, 2004 3:57 am

There's a reason the beta forum is not visible for non-testers.


i think that when writing this you forgot to add: ",and that is....."

translation from the arogant speach: can you please state the reasons
there is new p2p site
...and it's growing.

The site is UP :)
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Postby Allied » Sat Dec 04, 2004 5:04 am

Mystery helps create hype.

The beta testing area is full of screen shots, error messages,questions/answers and download links for eXeem.
Last edited by Allied on Sat Dec 04, 2004 7:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby crashuk » Sat Dec 04, 2004 6:49 am

eretan wrote:Crashuk: "user base" size is actually indirectly and inversely related to the speed at which data returns. I say this because, like I said in my last post, the overall up/down ratio of any P2P is one. Technically there's no such thing as a "fast" P2P network and a "slow" P2P network,


Bigger user base will give you better speeds down to have more people shareing for longer..

up/down ratio is never one.. unless every one could upload at the same speed as they download.. Most users on DSL/CABLE have a download speed that is 4 times faster then they upload speed.

Also what makes BT so fast is the smart seeding systems which never uploads the same part more then once till you have uploaded 100% of the file.. All other p2p upload are using Random parts so they end up.. uploading the same part 10-30 times before they get any where close to seeding the file by 100%
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Postby Psycho Ced » Sat Dec 04, 2004 7:05 am

definaly has potential
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Postby nms04 » Sat Dec 04, 2004 9:56 am

sound's very promissing!! will there be a public beta test?
.
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Postby crashuk » Sat Dec 04, 2004 10:45 am

Mushroom wrote:sound's very promissing!! will there be a public beta test?

I hope they let more people join.. they let 5000 users join but feels like they only 100-200 online at a time.. be a lot better with more users. But theys a lot bugs like crashs.. its only a 0.14 beta so theys a long way to till v1.0
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Postby LocK » Sat Dec 04, 2004 12:32 pm

red duck wrote:
There's a reason the beta forum is not visible for non-testers.


i think that when writing this you forgot to add: ",and that is....."

translation from the arogant speach: can you please state the reasons

1. eXeem is still not done, and still has a couple large bugs that need to be worked out. If we made an open beta right now for everyone, then myself and all the other mods and admins would be dealing with every person who downloads the program asking "why does it do *so and so*" and such. Many people just don't understand what a beta test is, and that there will be bugs in the program.
2. The beta forum as a link to download eXeem, and obviously we don't want non-testers in there because of reason 1.
3. The beta forum is filled with screenshots, techincal information, guides, and other threads that we don't want non-testers to be reading, simply because we want you guys to have a complete, fast, clean, non-buggy P2P app as your first impression of eXeem. Many people get turned off by small things like the GUI or minor bugs, which are going to be fixed in later versions of the beta and the final release.

Answer your question?
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Postby poullos » Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:01 pm

Lock, can you describe a bit the similarities and differences of eXeem to classic bittorrent clients/protocol if any?

It seems that eXeem will maintain bittorrents efficiency but will add the search built-in fuction and eliminate the need of a tracker. Am I correct up to this point?

And for more technical, where will the announces originally be made? Will the eXeem use some way of identification between the clients as a wider network in order to eliminate the tracker use?

And last, a normal bittorrent client will be able to connect to the swarm, or even to the wider network if any?
¯\(º_o)/¯
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Postby AussieMatt » Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:26 pm

I think Lock's comments should be taken into consideration when trying all BETA programs.
BETA versions are test versions and will probably contain Bugs and dont have pretty GUI's becuse the developers are usualy working on other aspect's of the program .

Lock one Question Was exceem built from the ground up and did the developers use portions of the bittorent code .I
ts well known that Bram Cohen contracts his services out for Bittorrent distribution roll outs and simmilar projects .
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Postby red duck » Sat Dec 04, 2004 3:26 pm

@ lock

thanks for the answer

1.) making a faq or a list of bugs or anything similar could help
3.) clearly stating that it is beta and under active development wouldn't hurt it's reputation

i guess it all depends from the stage of development of exeem, if you and other admins decide that exeem is not ready for public beta i don't have a problem with this
there is new p2p site
...and it's growing.

The site is UP :)
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Postby LocK » Sat Dec 04, 2004 3:32 pm

red duck wrote:@ lock

thanks for the answer

1.) making a faq or a list of bugs or anything similar could help
3.) clearly stating that it is beta and under active development wouldn't hurt it's reputation

i guess it all depends from the stage of development of exeem, if you and other admins decide that exeem is not ready for public beta i don't have a problem with this

The problem is SN caters to a ton of people who are brand new to BT, and computers in general. Many of them wouldn't bother reading a FAQ, or even know that one existed (even if it was made very obvious). I mean, on our forums we have a how to section with over 30 well-written tutorials on just about everything you need for bittorrent, but our help sections are still cluttered with people asking questions like "What are .001 files?" and "how come it says 'please insert CD'". :P

I know that saying its beta won't hurt its reputation for people who understand what a beta exactly is, but its people who don't, it would. Sadly, there's far more people in that catagory.

And for AussieMatt and poullos, I don't want to answer any questions without permission from one of the admins. Sorry. :(
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Postby notbob » Sat Dec 04, 2004 3:37 pm

LocK wrote:And for AussieMatt and poullos, I don't want to answer any questions without permission from one of the admins. Sorry. :(


i'll take that as a "yes, this product breaks GPL rules", since if it was no, you'd just repeat the no from before

it's fine and dandy that you have answered lots of questions already, but the ones that really matter (how does it work? where does the code come from?) are big no-nos

typical spam tactics, hell i think you should be just as banned as the es5 and ants spammers were
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Postby AussieMatt » Sat Dec 04, 2004 3:54 pm

At least Ants is open source Notbob LOL
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Postby notbob » Sat Dec 04, 2004 4:01 pm

AussieMatt wrote:At least Ants is open source Notbob LOL


so is bittorrent, that's the issue

if the source is closed on a BT derivative, it breaks the GPL, and if they made something new, it isn't BT anymore

that is why "how does it work" and "where did the code come from" are so important

if they didn't want it public because it's too beta to release, they should have kept their testers mouths (or typing fingers) shut until it was ready for prime time

philosophising about a nonexistent (to the public) product that nobody has tried goes far beyond pointless, it just creates more hype to get suprnova more page hits, ad placements, and forum regs

just like es5 oddly enough
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Postby LocK » Sat Dec 04, 2004 4:24 pm

notbob wrote: they should have kept their testers mouths (or typing fingers) shut until it was ready for prime time

You guys have known about it for how long? :roll:

It's been in development and early testing for much longer than the call for testers on .org. We tried as best as we could, and personally, I think its pretty good that you are just starting to see screenshots and information leak.

And no, it doesn't break GPL rules. It was coded completely in C++ from scratch, which means it isn't breaking any GNU agreements.

I haven't talked about anything that hasn't already been leaked by some of our less-than-trustworty testers, so don't run around calling me a spammer. Personally, if I had my way, the program would have stayed quiet until release date. Hype is a double-edged sword. You do get the publicity, but if you don't meet expectations, your screwed. Besides, we don't need to spam eXeem all over the place. SN gets close to a million hits a day; one news item and we'd have a couple hundred thousand people running it.

philosophising about a nonexistent (to the public) product that nobody has tried goes far beyond pointless

I agree with you there. IMHO this story shouldn't have been written until we at least go to public beta. But its out, nothing we can do about it now.

But since you think I'm such a spammer notbob, I won't post in this thread anymore. :?
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Postby deadman » Sat Dec 04, 2004 5:24 pm

LOL internet ;)
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Postby SlyckChuck » Sat Dec 04, 2004 5:28 pm

Speculation leads to hype. Seems like a lot here.
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Postby Allied » Sat Dec 04, 2004 10:54 pm

Hype is a good thing.
If exeem is another form of torrents, then it stands to reason that it'll be subject to all factors that crush torrent speeds.

If exeem can get into the 1 million club with Gnutella Fastcrap and ED2k, even with a yellow light you'll get good speed.
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Postby Leiflvr » Sun Dec 05, 2004 2:19 am

LocK wrote:
Leiflvr wrote:Lock I hate to say it, but you guys should've limited the access to existing and "trusted" forum members. Allowing noobs to participate was a mistake IMHO. But then again hindsight is 20/20.


For the first couple of beta versions, only very trusted members that had been on the forum for a while were testing. :wink:

But we're at the point where we need to test it with a large number of users, and there's no way to pull 5k "trusted" people off the forums.


I'm just bitter cause I missed out on both calls. :P . Also I don't think it'd be hard to get 5k people out of the 200k+ members on the forum(did I mention I was one of them :wink: ) Anyway I'm sure it'll be a hit and look fwd to the "formal" release. Any idea when that'll be btw?
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Postby Leiflvr » Sun Dec 05, 2004 2:24 am

notbob wrote:
LocK wrote:And for AussieMatt and poullos, I don't want to answer any questions without permission from one of the admins. Sorry. :(


i'll take that as a "yes, this product breaks GPL rules", since if it was no, you'd just repeat the no from before

it's fine and dandy that you have answered lots of questions already, but the ones that really matter (how does it work? where does the code come from?) are big no-nos

typical spam tactics, hell i think you should be just as banned as the es5 and ants spammers were


Try decaf man. He's answering your questions to the best of his ability without leaking anything else and you respond with flames!? Way to promote a desire to share more info with you. :roll:
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Postby red duck » Sun Dec 05, 2004 6:13 am

Try decaf man. He's answering your questions to the best of his ability without leaking anything else and you respond with flames!? Way to promote a desire to share more info with you.


i don't think those are flames
there is new p2p site
...and it's growing.

The site is UP :)
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