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Eight Ways to Revitalize P2P

Postby SlyckTom » Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:55 pm

Times have been slow in the file-sharing world. There’s no greater evidence than the obvious reduction in news production on Slyck.com. Ask any file-sharing veteran, and they’ll attest to the relative snails pace of P2P activity.

This of course has little impact on the P2P or file-sharing population, which continues to grow at its typical rate. Rather, the excitement and community atmosphere associated with the file-sharing community has been rather dull. Yet like many things in life, this situation has come full circle and just about everyone ready to get back into the P2P saddle.

While the P2P world can likely recuperate without any outside influence, there’s several improvements the file-sharing community can directly involve itself with to expedite its return to greatness.

<b>8)</b> Challenge BitTorrent/eDonkey2000 indexing sites which enforce ratios.

It’s not often that Slyck.com and BitTorrent, Inc. are in direct harmony; however Bram Cohen is on the money when it comes to ratios. In a recent interview with <a href=http://www.zeropaid.com/news/7728/Bram+Cohen+Refuses+BitTorrent+Ratio+Exploit+Patch target=_blank>Zeropaid.com</a>, a popular file-sharing news site, Bram expressed that he stands by his anti-ratio policy.

“[Leechers are] engaging in perfectly reasonable and non-destructive behavior and the site is trying to punish him for it, thus fostering the creation of clients which lie about their statistics. This is the site's fault, and the result could do serious damage to the value of BitTorrent statistics generally. Sites which do this are being extremely destructive, and the way they grandstand about how they're fostering sharing really ticks me off,” Bram told Zeropaid.

And Bram’s right. The BitTorrent protocol by its very nature forces the client to participate on the network, thereby negating any sophisticated argument to the contrary. In essence, the only tangible result of enforcing ratios is the development of BitTorrent clients which send falsified uploading data to trackers. In essence the implementation of ratio enforcement only forces those who have no intention to share beyond they completed download to use spoof clients; while the policy is irrelevant to those who naturally feel obligated to seed.

If the entertainment industry is having trouble enforcing its will online, how do tracker administrators feel justified their luck will be any better – especially when dealing with the same crowd?

<b>7)</b> Question BitTorrent/eDonkey2000 indexing sites which implement payment systems.

Contrary to popular belief, file-sharing is not about piracy. Rather, it’s about community, the furtherance of technology and the pursuit of knowledge. Paramount to all these ideals is the concept that file-sharing should be free. When individuals begin to charge for that information, or access to that information, it creates a system of privilege and rejects equality.

Few file-sharers support the entertainment industry’s position on digital copyright enforcement, yet interestingly enough most file-sharing accept the entertainment industry’s policy of aggressively pursuing physical pirates. Charging for information not owned by the seller is frowned upon not only in the physical world, but online as well.

<b>6)</b> Piolet – Big up Yourself!

Piolet was once called Blubster. The once famous P2P client generated legions of followers, and not just because it was a decent source of information. Rather, Blubster created a community environment that challenged Napster. It had a concise news section, and an entire .net domain dedicated to the sole purpose of furthering its large community.

Those days are long gone. Instead, Piolet.com is spit and polish and has the feel of a corporate website. Blubster.com was an inviting and homey location that welcomed new ideas and the exchange of information. The only thing Piolet.com invites is a quick click to another website. Most people still remember the old days of Blubster, and programmer Pablo Soto sits on a golden opportunity to give exactly what many in the P2P community seek.

<b>5)</b> Support Open Source Networks and Clients.

The commercial P2P scene has been wiped clean – at least nearly so. StreamCast’s Morpheus and LimeWire are the only two US based developers still fighting the good fight - however their longevity is in question.

Open source innovation has instead become the cornerstone of P2P and file-sharing development. Gnutella and eDonkey2000 once were controlled primarily by closed source, commercial operators. Yet because of the highly distributed nature of open source development, these networks still exist long after their commercial overlords were banished from ever looking at another P2P network again.

So when you fire up your next file-sharing client, ask yourself, “Is there an open source alternative? Is the longevity of this program dependent on a future court ruling?”

<b>4)</b> Support Free Content.

The entertainment industry is vehemently opposed to unauthorized file-sharing. Fair enough. Instead, find similar genres that are distributed under creative commons or copy lefted. There’s an incalculable number of content that is distributed at no cost and contains no DRM. Many alternative artists openly encourage their fans to redistribute, mix, or otherwise manipulate their work. Sites like <a href=http://www.jamendo.com/ target=_blank>Jamendo</a>, <a href=http://www.artistserver.com/ target=_blank>Artist Server</a> (Caution: some artists on Artist Server offer their music copyrighted) and <a href=http://www.sectionz.com/cc.asp target=_blank>SectionZ</a> all offer large directories of Creative commons licenced material.

Creative Commons isn't limited to music though. Webcasters such as <a href=http://www.revision3.com target=_blank>the Revision 3 crew</a>, <a href=http://www.twit.tv target=_blank>the TWiTcasters</a> and <a href=http://www.slyck.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=16672&start=0 target=_blank>many more</a> utilise Creative Commons. Artists can use sites like <a href=http://www.sampletorrents.com/ target=_blank>Sample torrents</a> to find legal samples for the purpose of creating music. The <a href=http://content.emule-project.net/ target=_blank>eMule Content Database</a> offers a wide variety of legal share-able content through the eDonkey2000 network. Many movies such as <a href=http://www.starwreck.com/ target=_blank>Star Wreck</a>, <a href=http://www.elephantsdream.org/ target=_blank>Elephants Dream</a>, <a href=http://www.piracydocumentary.com/ target=_blank>The Piracy Documentary</a>, and <a href=http://www.stealthisfilm.com/ target=_blank>Steal This Film</a> are offered through the BitTorrent protocol. The list of Creative commons works is endless and this list of examples is just the beginning.

<b>3)</b> Forget about the minor issues…

Like the old saying goes, there are things in life we can change, and things we cannot. If you’re lucky, God will give you the serenity to tell the difference. Most file-sharers are already well educated in the dealings of DRM (Digital Rights Management), political issues, software, hardware, and numerous other issues facing the Internet and its netizens today.

However there’s an extensive population of individuals who do not. Make it a point to show friends, family, and even strangers the wide-ranging network of information available online. Web resources such as the EFF.org, Ares Technica, Boing Boing, Corante, AfterDawn, CD Freaks and ZeroPaid have bustling communities filled with individuals are more than willing to share information. There may not be anything an individual can do to protest the latest Senate Judiciary hearing on the implementation of Broadcast Flag technology, but you can certainly help people towards the path of enlightenment with information.

<b>2)</b> Perception is everything

A positive attitude and confidence is a key to success. If faced with a difficult and challenging task, a defeatist point of view will almost always lead to failure. There are more than 10 million documented P2P users online at any given moment, with millions of additional users traversing BitTorrent. This number represents a value of more than 10 fold over Napster. Napster’s comparatively diminutive size reshaped the Internet and gave us the world we have today.

While the chips may seem down, they are anything but. The entertainment industry has been forced to refocus their enforcement efforts, music stores are beginning to experiment with DRM-free products, and iTunes is still a relatively small enterprise compared with an average P2P network.

<b>1)</b> Have fun!

There was a time when file-sharing was inventive. During the early days of Gnutella, fans of this network used to race across IRC looking for gateway IP addresses. Without it, the client could not connect to the network (a la WinMX.) Although a bit annoying at the time, it helped build the community atmosphere and cooperation that made file-sharing enjoyable and adventurous.

As file-sharing stabilized, much of the magic that initially surrounded it has dissipated. Those around since the beginning may even question the relevance of file-sharing. Maybe people are taking the whole deal too seriously. Sit back, relax, and see what’s happening out there.
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Postby webe3 » Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:46 pm

Sorry, Sylcktom, but I simply do NOT agree about the BT ratios on private BT sites as slyck sees it!

If it were not for those ratios, most would choose not to seed. And the arguement that enforcing those ratios does not work, does not seem to hold water either. The fact is, if you don't want to give on a private BT site... then DON'T TAKE! It is as simple as that!

I use newsgroups for that very reason! I don't have any stupid upload ratios to contend with....I simply leech on newsgroups...but on the rare occasion when I DO use private BT sites to get some stuff...I ALWAYS upload back...usually more than a 1 to 1 ratio.

But the people who use "Bit Torrent cheats" in my book on private BT sites should think to themselves what it would be like if everyone cheated.

Like I said, if they don't want to give back anything, then they should not use the site. Period! If they get discovered and are permanently banned from the private BT site in question, (as a lot have) then I think that is
perfectly fine by me.

I am playing by the rules. Why should some other idiot get by with a ratio cheat and be able to leech off of me without giving anything back?? Bit Torrent is NOT kazaa!!
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Postby DownWithAdmins » Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:02 pm

His whole argument is off, statements are obvious at worst....sometimes I think people just want to type when no one will is listening in the real world
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Postby Fartingbob » Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:12 pm

webe3 wrote:If it were not for those ratios, most would choose not to seed.

Cheaters allow everyone to up their ratio on private trackers, if it wasnt for leechers and cheaters, it would be impossible to gain a high ratio unless your a releaser, because the trackers total ratio will always be 1:1. Private trackers depend on leeching.
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Postby jay-jay » Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:17 pm

I'm all for seeing Pablo making a supreme come back with a new Piolet/Blubster. Its a shame how development has slowed to a halt on the Manolito network.
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Postby prisale » Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:20 pm

Webe 3

Well said. People have the choice of using whatever they want, but quality private trackers are for me the very best. Can not beat the download speed you get. Ratios can be a pain but most trackers are fairly tolerant if at least an effort is made. And there are very simple ways to improve your ratio if you have to. Has nothing to do with "cheating" either.
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Postby Reggie p2p » Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:32 pm

Support FREE content? Nice sentament slycktom but magnatune aint free.
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Postby SlyckTom » Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:41 pm

Thanks and thanks!
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Postby Reggie p2p » Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:47 pm

webe3 wrote:I use newsgroups for that very reason! I don't have any stupid upload ratios to contend with....I simply leech on newsgroups...but on the rare occasion when I DO use private BT sites to get some stuff...I ALWAYS upload back...usually more than a 1 to 1 ratio.


AGAIN WITH THE NEWSGROUPS! This article aint about newsgroups! If you love LEECHING newsgroups write a story about it and how you get stuff fast without ratio

webe3 wrote:I am playing by the rules. Why should some other idiot get by with a ratio cheat and be able to leech off of me without giving anything back?? Bit Torrent is NOT kazaa!!


I play by the rules! Who are you to call me an idiot jest because I have a low ratio on ScT?? Who?? Tell me because I want to know. You have some nerve calling me names. I seed files over night sometime and still get low ratio. Hey read the text that was written about how to improve ratio sites before calling names!!!
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Was it

Postby GrymRpr » Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:57 pm

Was it a slow news day SlyckTom?
:lol:
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Postby eAi » Thu Oct 12, 2006 8:09 pm

Well at least we didn't have the whole history of p2p prefixing the article!

I think that enforced rations are a Good Thing in some respects. On UkNova (which specializes in UK TV) the ratio system means that downloads are very fast - often at 8Mbit/s or faster. The clear downside in these cases are that its hard to increase your ratio - if you start downloading more than a day after the file was released, you get the file very quickly but then have nobody to seed to (or at lot of seeders to compete with).

All in all, I think it works well but not if its too strictly enforced. If you start banning people who are below 0.2 you'll ban a load of people who aren't intentionally not seeding.
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Re: Eight Ways to Revitalize P2P

Postby Maestro120 » Thu Oct 12, 2006 8:33 pm

SlyckTom wrote:<b>8)</b> Challenge BitTorrent/eDonkey2000 indexing sites which enforce ratios.

It’s not often that Slyck.com and BitTorrent, Inc. are in direct harmony; however Bram Cohen is on the money when it comes to ratios.


This argument can be refuted in one fell stroke. Simply compare the efficiency and speeds of public Torrent sites to private ones... no comparison. Neither do I buy that tired old argument about it being impossible to maintain a good ratio due to slow upload speeds. My upload speed is 386KB per sec and I still am able to maintain a positive ratio on private sites simply by jumping on a seeded torrent early... even some that I don't necessarily want to download. I also tend to avoid going for the large games and DVDRs (4+ gigs) on private sites (I get these from Usenet) since chances are I would be left high and dry by the time its my turn to seed the file.
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Postby IceCube » Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:01 pm

There's two problems I see with Private BitTorrent sites that enforce share ratio's.

The first problem is that they are slow. They are NOT slow in the traditional, "Argh, I can't download this fast enough", they are slow in this sense, "Argh! It takes forever to keep my share ratio up!" And I know some of you are going, "Well, on a T1 Lime+ connection, it only takes a couple minutes and it's no big deal!" I think some people need to understand that just because you have a fast connection doesn't mean EVERYONE has a fast connection. I did try a private site and I know full well how long getting a good ratio takes on one. There's usually a couple of releasers on a really fast connection and when people who download from these swarms complete the file really quickly, then can't upload fast enough to anyone else who isn't done and now you have, say, 6 seeders with one at a ratio of 5.8 and the rest at 0.25. Then there's the occasional person that comes on and he gets a rediculously fast speed and now there's 7 seeds, one at 6.8, 5 at 0.3 and one at 0.0. Hypothetically, now the rediculously fast uploader leaves the swarm. How many more peers have to join in the swarm befor the current seeds reach the covetted 1.0? How long will it take on a slow swarm? Days? Weeks?

Second issue with private BitTorrent sites is that some people report having to download something they don't even want just to keep up their ratio. I think that is a serious problem with the system when users are put into such a situation. It reminds me of the Sony Rootkit, only private BT sites just screws up your browsing speed for days on end.
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Postby Reggie p2p » Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:06 pm

IceCube wrote:Second issue with private BitTorrent sites is that some people report having to download something they don't even want just to keep up their ratio. I think that is a serious problem with the system when users are put into such a situation. It reminds me of the Sony Rootkit, only private BT sites just screws up your browsing speed for days on end.


One word. UNBELIEVABLE!! Comparing a private BT site to a sony rootkit! Outrageous further you accuse them of screwing up browsing speed days at a time. Sorry but ur out of line.
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Postby multivariable » Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:10 pm

Someone needs a nap :wink:
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Postby IceCube » Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:11 pm

Reggie p2p wrote:
IceCube wrote:Second issue with private BitTorrent sites is that some people report having to download something they don't even want just to keep up their ratio. I think that is a serious problem with the system when users are put into such a situation. It reminds me of the Sony Rootkit, only private BT sites just screws up your browsing speed for days on end.


One word. UNBELIEVABLE!! Comparing a private BT site to a sony rootkit! Outrageous further you accuse them of screwing up browsing speed days at a time. Sorry but ur out of line.


Can you honestly tell me how I'm incorrect? Maybe I need to elaborate on this argument:

Sony Rootkit: Forces something on to your system that you don't want and degrades your system

Private BitTorrent site: Forces something on to your system that you don't want and degrades your browsing speed (you're bandwidth is going somewhere and it's not going to loading webpages)

I've already said that the private site isn't as bad, but the problems have their similarities.

Sure, you can say I'm out of line, can you tell me how I'm out of line?
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Postby Fartingbob » Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:11 pm

Reggie p2p wrote:One word. UNBELIEVABLE!! Comparing a private BT site to a sony rootkit! Outrageous further you accuse them of screwing up browsing speed days at a time. Sorry but ur out of line.

Lol, i agree with cube on this one. It can be very difficult for people on standard upload speeds to get a positive ratio, it can be frustrating to see you leave your file uploading for days and then see your still at 0.4 ratio because several uploaders can supply 20 users leaving you uploading at 1Kbps.
Like sony rootkits. Annoying.
I used to belong to filelist, but i got banned for saying that the moderators were being unfair on other users. I kind of lost faith in private trackers at that point.
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Postby Reggie p2p » Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:14 pm

Fartingbob wrote:Lol, i agree with cube on this one. It can be very difficult for people on standard upload speeds to get a positive ratio, it can be frustrating to see you leave your file uploading for days and then see your still at 0.4 ratio because several uploaders can supply 20 users leaving you uploading at 1Kbps.
Like sony rootkits. Annoying.


annoying yes. destructive like a rootkit no. Sorry but he's wrong.

Fartingbob wrote:I used to belong to filelist, but i got banned for saying that the moderators were being unfair on other users. I kind of lost faith in private trackers at that point.


you know what, it was prolly haddock. He's just a lil fool who sits in front of his comp all day threatening to disable accounts. Odds are you did NOTHING from fartingbob nothing. Give it another try but a different tracker.
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Postby IceCube » Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:19 pm

Reggie p2p wrote:
Fartingbob wrote:Lol, i agree with cube on this one. It can be very difficult for people on standard upload speeds to get a positive ratio, it can be frustrating to see you leave your file uploading for days and then see your still at 0.4 ratio because several uploaders can supply 20 users leaving you uploading at 1Kbps.
Like sony rootkits. Annoying.


annoying yes. destructive like a rootkit no. Sorry but he's wrong.


IceCube wrote:I've already said that the private site isn't as bad
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Postby Reggie p2p » Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:25 pm

IceCube wrote:
IceCube wrote:I've already said that the private site isn't as bad


so a rootkit like website that slows down browsing days at a time is something good? OUTRAGEOUS!
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Postby IceCube » Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:28 pm

I never said it was good.
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Postby Reggie p2p » Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:30 pm

STOP IT! You know what you are? A word taker backer. Pure politician sittin on both sides while throwing bombs.
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Postby carcassfan » Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:32 pm

UNBELIEVABLE!!


OUTRAGEOUS!


STOP IT!


I dont know why that makes me laugh. :lol:

try this 1: STFU!!!



quit splitting hairs people. as a moderator, you should not be feeding into this type of argument icecube. :idea:
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Postby Fartingbob » Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:32 pm

Reggie p2p wrote:STOP IT! You know what you are? A word taker backer. Pure politician sittin on both sides while throwing bombs.

"not as bad" isnt the same as "good".
Pol pot wasnt as bad as Hitler, but that doesnt mean he was good.
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Postby Reggie p2p » Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:35 pm

carcassfan wrote:I dont know why that makes me laugh. :lol:

try this 1: STFU!!!


Is that allowed on this forum? I read the rules b4 posting and i don';t think so. What's ur problem anyway? I'm recheckin the rules and if it's allowed i'm comin back with some choice words for ya.

carcassfan wrote:quit splitting hairs people. as a moderator, you should not be feeding into this type of argument icecube. :idea:


he's moderator??? THAT'S outrageous! Well if he's like haddock my acct will be disable. Fartinbob knows the story.
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