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Mute and Router

Postby RealG187 » Fri Mar 02, 2007 10:17 pm

Does mute work behind a router or at all?

I tried MUTE on public PCs back b4 i had internet and it didnt work [most likely because of a router], Ares and utorrent did, at home I go behind a wireless router and still cant connect to mute...
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Postby MrFredPFL » Fri Mar 02, 2007 10:32 pm

any program can work behind a router - but often only if you are able to forward the necessary port(s).
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Postby RealG187 » Fri Mar 02, 2007 10:40 pm

MrFredPFL wrote:any program can work behind a router - but often only if you are able to forward the necessary port(s).


I know utorrent says something about that, it works but slow....

Do u think why that is it, has anyone ever actaully ran mute?
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Postby tommatojuice » Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:15 pm

Some p2p programs can actually work while NATed behind a router of some kind, and not have any port forwarding. Limewire is a good example of this, it does not need port forwarding to connect to the Gnutella network. Some p2p clients work better then others when it comes to connecting to their networks without port forwarding.

For more information on NAT traversal Google search wikipedia nat traversal and go to the first link. (Pain in the ass rule about making 5 post before I can add links)

It seems to me that the p2p clients with some kind of NAT traversal going for them, don't need port forwarding. I don't know why this works because I thought a router could close a port, regardless of anything to do with NAT.
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Postby RealG187 » Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:01 pm

I can use Ares and uTorrent [though uTorrent recommends port forwarding to go faster [what ever that is!].

I used to use P2P on public machines so I would assume that they used a router there, and I know that I currently am behind one at home...
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Postby Asuran » Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:40 pm

tommatojuice wrote:Some p2p programs can actually work while NATed behind a router of some kind, and not have any port forwarding. Limewire is a good example of this, it does not need port forwarding to connect to the Gnutella network. Some p2p clients work better then others when it comes to connecting to their networks without port forwarding.


Or, to be more accurate, most programs work while NATed or FWed, but with limited connectivity, and few programs use some advanced techniques to work around these limitations. :)
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Postby RealG187 » Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:03 am

I have trouble direct chatting in Ares w/ people who i am downloading/uploading to/from...

Has anyone ever got MUTE to connect? If I had a direct connection would it work?
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Postby tommatojuice » Fri Mar 16, 2007 7:19 pm

Asuran wrote:
tommatojuice wrote:Some p2p programs can actually work while NATed behind a router of some kind, and not have any port forwarding. Limewire is a good example of this, it does not need port forwarding to connect to the Gnutella network. Some p2p clients work better then others when it comes to connecting to their networks without port forwarding.


Or, to be more accurate, most programs work while NATed or FWed, but with limited connectivity, and few programs use some advanced techniques to work around these limitations. :)


What exactly do you mean by that? I believe that in most scenario's most clients use some sort of NAT traversal techniques such as UPnP or other. However, most of these techniques don't work 100% well and that is why the client is 10x slower if one does not have port forwarding set up correctly.
Secondly I don't think any program which requires the internet can operate properly if behind a firewall (and the firewall is blocking the connection) unless the firewall is not working correctly. :?

Oh ya, RealG187, MUTE never connects for me either. I think that I once heard something like MUTE will NEVER work if one is behind any type of router, but I'm not sure if this is true.
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Postby Asuran » Fri Mar 16, 2007 8:22 pm

tommatojuice wrote:What exactly do you mean by that? I believe that in most scenario's most clients use some sort of NAT traversal techniques such as UPnP or other. However, most of these techniques don't work 100% well and that is why the client is 10x slower if one does not have port forwarding set up correctly.


NAT only limits your ability to receive inbound connections from other peers. You can still connect to any and all peers, who can accept inbound connections. This limits the total amount of peers you can connect to, but there is still plenty of non-natted, non-firewalled peers that you can connect to and share with. NAT traversal is a technique that allows you also to accept inbound connections when behind NAT, i.e. making it possible for you to again connect any and all peers.

For example, utorrent will show a red icon on the bottom if you can not receive inbound connections. Even so, from my experience, Bittorrent works very well, even if not optimal.

Secondly I don't think any program which requires the internet can operate properly if behind a firewall (and the firewall is blocking the connection) unless the firewall is not working correctly. :?


Typically firewalls only block inbound connection attempts, especially in the context when you say that a peer is "firewalled".
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Postby tommatojuice » Fri Mar 16, 2007 8:30 pm

So why is it that some networks and some clients work well with no port forwarding set up? Let me illustrate what I mean. Lime wire works just as well with no port forwarding as it does with port forwarding. The same applies to ANts. ANts uses a NAT traversal technique where it writes the data being transfered inside the heaer of sometihng else which get's routed over a server. However, their are other p2p clients which don't work very well without portfowarding in place such as utorrent (to my experince) and bearshare.

Does anyone know why some clients/networks work better with no port forwarding set up then others do?
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Postby Asuran » Fri Mar 16, 2007 8:55 pm

tommatojuice wrote:So why is it that some networks and some clients work well with no port forwarding set up? Let me illustrate what I mean. Lime wire works just as well with no port forwarding as it does with port forwarding. The same applies to ANts. ANts uses a NAT traversal technique where it writes the data being transfered inside the heaer of sometihng else which get's routed over a server. However, their are other p2p clients which don't work very well without portfowarding in place such as utorrent (to my experince) and bearshare.

Does anyone know why some clients/networks work better with no port forwarding set up then others do?


That is simply because programs like limewire and hamachi use advanced techniques to work around the problem that prevents people behind nats accepting connections. I believe that they use an intermediary server to help set up the tcp connection between two natted users e.g.

Many programs do not yet have such sophisticated methods in use and therefore are limited in functionality by nat/fw.
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Postby tommatojuice » Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:51 pm

Interesting. Well that answers my question
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