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Postby sa302 » Fri Nov 04, 2005 8:47 pm

jetiants-tk-user wrote:4. See this quotation of the phex developer:

So you do acknowledge that you are in fact im-p2p?
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Postby jetiants-tk-user » Fri Nov 04, 2005 8:49 pm

sa, you are silly, im-2p is on sf the admin, not the developer, this is natural !! and written in the project description.!!!
learn, that the developer is not the project admin.
this is why the have different jobs and different terms. baiscally.
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Postby jetiants-tk-user » Fri Nov 04, 2005 8:52 pm

i am always well read and informed.
So I guess metaframe is the one who has closer information, adress to him.
I am just quoting and normally on the ants board!
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Postby tarp404 » Sat Nov 05, 2005 3:58 am

We're all getting really tired of you bullshit. Go away.
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Postby sa302 » Sat Nov 05, 2005 5:58 am

jetiants-tk-user wrote:this is why the have different jobs and different terms. baiscally.

I wanted to know if you are the user "im-p2p" on sourceforge.
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Postby Ashitaka » Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:00 pm

The biggest anonymous networks are Winny and Share, if only Americans would hop on instead of making their own ridiculous, drama-laden networks... I can't find any files on ANTS or MUTE.
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Postby lordpake » Tue Nov 08, 2005 4:13 am

Too bad winny and share are mainly asian networks..with full support for local language(s).
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dumb

Postby kevinsanz » Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:10 pm

who ever said Mute-Net had less user and less content than Ants is the Stupidest person In the world. Ants has like 80 people Mute-Net has over 2,000. Mute has Content ons more. Ants has 132 songs in total if you search for mp3. On mute their would be over 3,000
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Re: dumb

Postby SickTom » Fri Nov 18, 2005 12:25 pm

kevinsanz wrote:who ever said Mute-Net had less user and less content than Ants is the Stupidest person In the world. Ants has like 80 people Mute-Net has over 2,000. Mute has Content ons more. Ants has 132 songs in total if you search for mp3. On mute their would be over 3,000


I say try MUTE, I2P, ANts P2P and Napshare and post a review.
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Re: dumb

Postby notbob » Fri Nov 18, 2005 12:32 pm

kevinsanz wrote:who ever said Mute-Net had less user and less content than Ants is the Stupidest person In the world. Ants has like 80 people Mute-Net has over 2,000. Mute has Content ons more. Ants has 132 songs in total if you search for mp3. On mute their would be over 3,000


if that's supposed to be impressive, it falls a bit short


2000 people with 3000 mp3s? ooooh hold the phone. even the shittiest dc hub has 100x that amount of files. christ even the average 12 year old girl has more files than that

what's the point of being anonymous if nobody has any files?
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Re: dumb

Postby SickTom » Fri Nov 18, 2005 12:47 pm

notbob wrote:
kevinsanz wrote:who ever said Mute-Net had less user and less content than Ants is the Stupidest person In the world. Ants has like 80 people Mute-Net has over 2,000. Mute has Content ons more. Ants has 132 songs in total if you search for mp3. On mute their would be over 3,000


if that's supposed to be impressive, it falls a bit short


2000 people with 3000 mp3s? ooooh hold the phone. even the shittiest dc hub has 100x that amount of files. christ even the average 12 year old girl has more files than that

what's the point of being anonymous if nobody has any files?


I agree - if anyone knows this "average 12 year old girl" could you please tell her about ANts P2P
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Postby tarp404 » Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:57 pm

Actually mute has far more than 3000 mp3s. If you do a wildcard search for .mp3 it'll show up 3000 results, but if you search for an mp3 with something more specific odds are you'll find other mp3s as well. It has to do with the search algorithm and when the query expires as it winds its way through the nodes.

For example in the kommute linux client I can search for, say, .mp3, and then filter the results to stuff matching the word "weed", and I might find a result or two, but if I then go back and search for weed, and filter to just the mp3 files, I'll find more files than before.

Regardless it does need more content, but that's where folks who complain about it need to be part of the solution if it matters so much to them.
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Postby Oromero » Thu Nov 24, 2005 1:09 am

Someone rename Share/Winny to something else so and release it as a new program PLEASE! This network works perfectly well as long as the message boards are not used on it. No one has ever been caught unless of course they used the message boards. We need to either get some new anon p2p client soon or p2p has a grim future. I say someone just rename share/winny and fully change it to english. I mean why not, it doesnt seem to hard and this way more people in the US will relize that its actully and good program. Duh
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Postby bitz » Thu Nov 24, 2005 4:44 pm

Oromero wrote:Someone rename Share/Winny to something else so and release it as a new program PLEASE! This network works perfectly well as long as the message boards are not used on it. No one has ever been caught unless of course they used the message boards. We need to either get some new anon p2p client soon or p2p has a grim future. I say someone just rename share/winny and fully change it to english. I mean why not, it doesnt seem to hard and this way more people in the US will relize that its actully and good program. Duh


There is a easy english share distribution, in fact I had posted a download link to it recently. Cannot get much easier.

Still others didn't care, they just posted a link to the official share website which requires you to put together your own installation, there are lots of seperate downloads, versions and a mix of english and japanease on the site, also many of the tools can only be downloaded from the share network, if you can find them and figure out which is the latest version. Not really a simple and friendly way to mass distribute it.

The share english distribution I linked to, takes care of all that, makes things as easy and clear as it can.

So it isn't that one doesn't exist, it's just nobody seems to want one.

Also besides share, there i2phex is another good working option.
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Postby notbob » Thu Nov 24, 2005 5:03 pm

tarp404 wrote:
Regardless it does need more content, but that's where folks who complain about it need to be part of the solution if it matters so much to them.


the people who want "anonymous" p2p are already there. unfortunately, (for them) nobody else cares about anonymity, especially if it takes 100 extra steps (see the share post above) or downloads are slow after bouncing off a few proxies

there is no mass market for anonymity, because even though people are getting sued, people are convinced a) that the ratio of lawsuits to users is negligible (12000/20000000), b) the punishments for being caught are negligible (a few thousand bucks), or c) they are arrogant enough to to think it will never happen to them
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Postby Cybergenetic » Thu Nov 24, 2005 6:05 pm

notbob wrote:there is no mass market for anonymity


It's yet to 'grow', obviously.

There's alot of people who would, and will, want such 'anonymity'.

Speak for yourself.
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Postby notbob » Thu Nov 24, 2005 7:12 pm

Cybergenetic wrote:
It's yet to 'grow', obviously.

There's alot of people who would, and will, want such 'anonymity'.

Speak for yourself.


present tense--there is no market for "anonymous" apps (i use the quotes because so far, nobody has proven one to exist, there are always flaws and backdoors to find someone). so, in the present tense, is there a demand for anonymity? yes, by child porn addicts and terrorists, and a few paranoid fringe elements of the p2p scene.

will that demand grow beyond the fringe? not unless a simple and effective program is developed,which none has been so far.

who else would i be speaking for? you? i don't think the dress and nylons would look good on me
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Postby Drake » Thu Nov 24, 2005 7:25 pm

notbob wrote: so, in the present tense, is there a demand for anonymity? yes, by child porn addicts and terrorists, and a few paranoid fringe elements of the p2p scene.


You should leave the propaganda about child porn addicts and terrorists to the **AA's. It sounds better coming from esteemed members of the corporate community.

I think there's a lot of interest in anonymous file sharing. Check out the forums at i2p.net. There are more than a handful of people contributing to the development of that app and many others are trying to learn how it works.
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Postby notbob » Thu Nov 24, 2005 7:42 pm

Drake wrote:
You should leave the propaganda about child porn addicts and terrorists to the **AA's. It sounds better coming from esteemed members of the corporate community.

I think there's a lot of interest in anonymous file sharing. Check out the forums at i2p.net. There are more than a handful of people contributing to the development of that app and many others are trying to learn how it works.


all that forum shows is how anonymous i2p isn't. what's the point of using an overblown anonymous p2p that isn't anonymous? seems a bit ridiculous when there are non-anonymous p2p programs that have users and files

legitimate uses of anonymity (political, social) are being shut out by greedy idiots using tor to anonymize their downloading. great work.

http://www.broadbandreports.com/shownews/68438

believing you need anonymity only further implies that p2p is illegal and needs to be hidden. is that the message you want to send?
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Postby SlyckScratch » Thu Nov 24, 2005 7:50 pm

What concerns me about anonymous networks is the complete lack of accountability. How do you keep order?

Drake wrote:
notbob wrote: so, in the present tense, is there a demand for anonymity? yes, by child porn addicts and terrorists, and a few paranoid fringe elements of the p2p scene.


You should leave the propaganda about child porn addicts and terrorists to the **AA's. It sounds better coming from esteemed members of the corporate community.

So if we leave paranoid file-sharers, sex offenders and terrorists out of the equation for a minute, what sort of person would want to go really out of their way to use a completely anonymous network?

I used to go to underground parties with up to 25,000 people in attendance. No-one knew you and you didn't know them. You didn't carry any ID and there was zero visible police presence - effectively no rules and no law. I've seen the way some people act when they're anonymous and its not pleasant.
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Postby Drake » Thu Nov 24, 2005 8:16 pm

notbob wrote:all that forum shows is how anonymous i2p isn't. what's the point of using an overblown anonymous p2p that isn't anonymous?


How does it show that it's not anonymous?

notbob wrote:believing you need anonymity only further implies that p2p is illegal and needs to be hidden. is that the message you want to send?


So those who are against phone tapping only against it because they're drug dealers? They must be criminals if they don't want to be monitored, no?

SlyckScratch wrote:What concerns me about anonymous networks is the complete lack of accountability. How do you keep order?


That's the whole point. There will be no central group maintaining order. People will have freedom to share what they want (including posting anonymously) without having to worry about being monitored.

SlyckScratch wrote:So if we leave paranoid file-sharers, sex offenders and terrorists out of the equation for a minute, what sort of person would want to go really out of their way to use a completely anonymous network?


I'm sure there are all kinds of people who would go out of their way to use it. I'm interested in it for many reasons. I'm curious to see how it works and how efficient it is. I also like the fact that traffic can't be tracked. I've seen you post about anonymous proxies. Why do so many people use them?

SlyckScratch wrote:I've seen the way some people act when they're anonymous and its not pleasant.


No one's forced to associate with these people. Just like using search engines, if you don't seek out stuff like porn you won't see any of it.
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Postby notbob » Thu Nov 24, 2005 8:43 pm

Drake wrote:
No one's forced to associate with these people. Just like using search engines, if you don't seek out stuff like porn you won't see any of it.


covering your eyes doesn't make a problem go away

recently, a computer science student got in trouble because he was running a tor "onion router" which was used to attack a website. how responsible are you when you willingly open your computer to anyone, including bad people? if you cache a file on freenet, are you responsible for the content?

http://www.rose-hulman.edu/Users/groups ... age/1.html

few people are willing to accept the negatives of anonymity. what are the positives? not getting caught? a persistent person can still track someone down (like the onion router guy) do you want to be left holding the evidence for someone else's crime?
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Postby Drake » Thu Nov 24, 2005 9:38 pm

I don't think any charges have been laid against him. The way I2P and Freenet work aren't identical to TOR. I don't know exactly how anonymous they are, but from what I've read, someone can't trace people on Freenet the way they did to catch this person.

There's good and bad points to complete anonymity. People will use these apps to do bad things. There's no question about it. But it's not logical to believe that only criminals and sickos will benefit from anonymity. I've used Freenet before and I look forward to the launch of their next version.

It's not a matter of closing your eyes to the bad things people may do. Those who prey on children often use IRC to lure them even though they're not anonymous. There will never be a shortage of sickos or criminals and I find it hard to believe that an app that allows people to be anonymous will create an even bigger population of sickos and criminals.

The worst that can happen is that these people will trade disgusting images with each other. Don't they already do this by email and instant messaging programs? What new problem will be created?

Anyway, focusing on these types of people takes away from what anonymity is really all about.
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Postby Cybergenetic » Thu Nov 24, 2005 10:19 pm

notbob wrote:i don't think the dress and nylons would look good on me


I gather you are struggling to find matching stiletto's, yes?.

On the contrary, I doubt you can see what I look like, or indeed, wearing, from that dungeon you live in. Browsing the net for extra tight latex suits and gimp masks, notbob?.
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Postby tarp404 » Fri Nov 25, 2005 3:51 am

Some say nobody uses anon-p2p, but millions of japanese do. Are they all pervs and terrorists? No, they use it because their faster connections make the proxying fast enough to be safe and effective for p2p.

Some talk about how anonymity should only be used by such projects as Tor, but then the only example of abuse of an anonymous project that anyone can come up with is of somebody abusing Tor!

And some might say that people act differently when they think they're anonymous. Well that's one of the crucial positive points of these applications. Public discourse is crucial to the health of our society, and yet there are many places in the world where speaking about certain things can get you arrested. Yet without that discourse, we run risk of only having self-affirming dogma on those topics, which is unhealthy.
Consider working in a place where the boss gets an idea about something and anyone who disagrees gets fired...If there's a flaw in the idea but everybody agrees with it anyway, it can fail and the whole company will suffer. You can just as easily apply that analogy to politics to see how a lack of discourse on a topic can lead to extremely bad consequences.
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