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MPAA, RIAA, Save P2P, we need a battle plan

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MPAA, RIAA, Save P2P, we need a battle plan

Postby gavinmilward » Wed Dec 15, 2004 5:50 pm

Ok guys and girls, this is it. First it was RIAA which started taking people down now the music artists themselves have kicked them in the but. Now MPAA have rose from the dirt and fallen in like, they use there brute force at money to take down our beloved sites of free downloads they take down out networks for no legitimate reasons. What are we going to do!!!!!!!!

First rest in peace Sharereactor you will forever be in all are souls and Shareconnector we are honoured by your reluctance to co-operate with MPAA that shows spirit. I could list more but the main ones are covered.

If we continue to sit back and say “oh bugger they’ve gone, ok where’s the next best site” eventually we will have no sites left, the authorities need to understand that the internet is our freedom and they cannot keep chopping our legs of piece by piece.

P2P is not bad, there are a number of folk that do use it to steal software with no intentions of purchase, I personally use it for TV episodes which are perfectly ok as I pay my bloody telly license and by my cable bill. I also use it to download software and if I then begin to use the software day in day out I will buy it.

But they keep taking them away, sorry for the big rant to the point

BATTLE PLAN

I urge all computer nerds/geeks like myself to come out into the open and be heard. We need a battle plan. The authorities cannot take on every computer geek in the world we a too smart to be taken down.

I am starting small by printing a T-shirt with a simple slogan “Save P2P”. then I will be downloading the P2P website that are currently up and I will host my own mirror for all to see dedicating the site specifically to Simon Moon (live on sharereactor, come back). Imagine if everyone hosts there own P2P site, ooh the havoc that would cause the authorities.
There are some others that one could try, SPAM the authorities, DDOS the authorities, then again no we’ll probably end up in deep doo doo if we get caught.

But fight back, the authorities cannot take down everyone in the world, and support the fallen sites, donate to legal costs if you can. They have the world of computer geeks behind them.

PLEASE POST SUGGESTIONS

Inspire computer nerds everywhere to come down and fight the intellectual war.

Again sorry for the long rant, but do not ignore my words.
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Postby gavinmilward » Wed Dec 15, 2004 6:07 pm

Another brain wave.

what if we set up a P2P, P2p Site.

if we all setup a site using the same mirrors which a download from say a central ftp site. all host them on our own broadband connections (those with static or semi static I.P's)

then setup the DNS with Multiple A records e.g all the home hosts using Round Robin to load balance. there fore if we had a dns A records like

http://www.p2pforever.com 1.2.3.4
http://www.p2pforever.com 1.2.3.5
http://www.p2pforever.com 1.2.3.6
http://www.p2pforever.com 1.2.3.7
http://www.p2pforever.com 1.2.3.8
http://www.p2pforever.com 1.2.3.9
http://www.p2pforever.com 1.2.3.10

it would then circulate each I.P so the first user would go to the first i.p the second site user to the second and so on. making this a potential world wide clustered P2P site.

if one host goes down, DNS then routes to one of the other hosts.

Cool eh, imagine them trying to take down that, Muhahahaha

If you know better than me and know this wont work feel free to pick at it as its all a theory so far, I have only started learning DNS and BIND this morning from an oreilly book.
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Re: MPAA, RIAA, Save P2P, we need a battle plan

Postby iNaNimAtE » Sun Dec 19, 2004 1:36 am

gavinmilward wrote:Inspire computer nerds everywhere to come down and fight the intellectual war.

Sorry, but that war isn't intellectual. First, there is no war, and second, your tactics against this supposed "war" are skewed. Do not attack people for defending themselves (OK, it was extreme, but it was still defense in principle). People broke the law, and now they are getting (partially) what they deserve. There will always be P2P technology, but so long as people abuse it, there will be consequences.

Case in point: Don't break the damn law.
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Postby lordfoul » Sun Dec 19, 2004 4:32 am

Oh god a sermon from In rofl
First of all
Oh dear am I breaking the law!
Get over it.
Second of all
Let the guy defend himself if he wants to.
Hypocrite
"Do not attack people for defending themselves"

Long Live Fair Use
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Re: MPAA, RIAA, Save P2P, we need a battle plan

Postby DepecheNode » Sun Dec 19, 2004 6:02 am

*Removed By Author*
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Please wait

Postby firsttheidea » Sun Dec 19, 2004 6:35 am

There is going to be an solution to this problem. Which will be very simple but ever so smart. Trust me, things are happing as I have been thinking about doing it for about 6 months. As such an lot of thought has gone in to this issue.

Hopefuly I will be able to post news about this within the next 3 weeks. Until I am ready I will not say anything.

Dont give up on hope because hope is not gone.
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Re: Please wait

Postby Meehowski » Sun Dec 19, 2004 6:39 am

firsttheidea wrote:There is going to be an solution to this problem. Which will be very simple but ever so smart. Trust me, things are happing as I have been thinking about doing it for about 6 months. As such an lot of thought has gone in to this issue.

Hopefuly I will be able to post news about this within the next 3 weeks. Until I am ready I will not say anything.

Dont give up on hope because hope is not gone.




I hope you are right..............
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Re: MPAA, RIAA, Save P2P, we need a battle plan

Postby blackrain » Mon Dec 20, 2004 9:07 am

iNaNimAtE wrote:
gavinmilward wrote:Inspire computer nerds everywhere to come down and fight the intellectual war.

Sorry, but that war isn't intellectual. First, there is no war, and second, your tactics against this supposed "war" are skewed. Do not attack people for defending themselves (OK, it was extreme, but it was still defense in principle). People broke the law, and now they are getting (partially) what they deserve. There will always be P2P technology, but so long as people abuse it, there will be consequences.

Case in point: Don't break the damn law.


Case in point, you don't know what you're talking about. Laws differ between countries and there are very few court decisions about whether or not most of these people have broken the law or not. As more information is given out, it appears the copyright owners made false allegations to get the authorities to do their dirty work. You see it over and over again. So stop spouting off. You sound just like one of them, glossing over and making generalizations and talking about "in principle." In principle, some of these sites may be in the wrong, but the law wasn't necessarily broken.
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Re: MPAA, RIAA, Save P2P, we need a battle plan

Postby jsenright » Tue Dec 21, 2004 11:31 am

blackrain wrote:....................... As more information is given out, it appears the copyright owners made false allegations to get the authorities to do their dirty work. ................


If that's the case... that's a crime in the US.. a real, live, pound me in the ass, Federal Prison, crime.

Can anyone prove that they (MPAA/RIAA) or their cohorts made false allegations to any authorities in the US???

If so.. let's get that evidence posted here..
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Postby firsttheidea » Tue Dec 21, 2004 3:50 pm

Why are any of you suprised that do that, it just dosn't make good PR for them to go for them. If get goverments to do you dirty work then people would belive that this was totaly wrong.

They got to keep an image that they ones being hard done by. If want to get then get prof that they dont pay tax's or price fixing ect or filing incorrect accounts to markets. One of them has to be liying in big way.

Start web site about these business not paying there royiltes etc.

Please no talk about war's because this nothing like an war. First it bad PR and sounds childish as child is upset because they can not get they own way.
If was going to keen it something it more like two 30 year old drunks trying to beat up teenager.

But from via point it is an arm's race. Which is just about to start.

PS History is repeating self, the more they take to court the more they publise it the more people will do it. Simple but they can not see that, because they are simple, two 30 year old drunks.
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Re: MPAA, RIAA, Save P2P, we need a battle plan

Postby Drake » Tue Dec 21, 2004 10:27 pm

iNaNimAtE wrote:First, there is no war, and second, your tactics against this supposed "war" are skewed. Do not attack people for defending themselves (OK, it was extreme, but it was still defense in principle).


You're wrong, there is a war. It started when the record labels began suing file sharers. They're not exactly defending themselves, they're attacking others. If you do some research you'll find that Hollywood is having a banner year. Box office records are being smashed. DVD sales are higher than ever. What exactly are they defending themselves from?


iNaNimAtE wrote:People broke the law, and now they are getting (partially) what they deserve. There will always be P2P technology, but so long as people abuse it, there will be consequences.


Partially getting what they deserve? Do you really believe that the admins from Shareconnector deserved to get raided and detained by the authorities for having a hash link site? Who exactly were ShareConnector harming?

Downloading copyrighted material does not mean you are abusing P2P technology. Not everyone agrees with copyright laws.

iNaNimAtE wrote:Case in point: Don't break the damn law.


Not all laws are just. Sometimes breaking the law is a good thing.
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fight back

Postby muttsthinks » Wed Dec 22, 2004 12:02 am

until someone comes up with the p2p software that
protects your idenity, IP address,so you share files safely, its be carefull out there.
record industry complains p2p are cost them billions.
they have room to talk, they riped off the comsumers by their price fixing, but thats ok with them.
they could come up with a paid service were you can download all you want for a reasonable fee, and everyone can be happy. Instead of overprice sites
they have now. 99 cents per song is way too much money. I used to belong to a record club were you
could purchase 3 cds for the price of 1 cd. it came down to around 7.95 per album including shipping and handling. You got the complete album, for less price then if you downloaded on line today. where you have to supply your own cd, label, and cd case. The sound quality was better. Yet the record industry saids they can't offer lower prices bull shit!!!
the movie industry is on the move to bust file sharers
but look what it costs to go see a movie at your local theater. they could offer a download service
for 25 dollars a month where you could download all the movies you want for 25 dollars a month. but no
they rather sue. dim wits!! i join blockbuster video store near me and for 25 dollars a month i rent all the movies i want for this low price. Its my day off i rented 4 videos today, shaun of the dead,Napoleon Dynamite ,Manchurian Candidate,King Arthur. if i went to see these movies at my local theater it would cost me a total of $40.00 so 25 dollars a month is a bargain, and movie industry all they can come up with is sueing individuals. by the way there is download time when you rent a movie, no lost connections, the picture is dvd quality. I have no need to download any movies, when i can get them so easy now. at a price that is reasonable. So it's the industry's own fault
not the p2p file sharers, all you have to do is offer
a good product at a reasonable price and people will flock to your door, and everyone can be happy. don't be a greedy S.O.B
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I want to help!

Postby _eAgLe_ » Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:52 am

Hey everyone, i agree that there should be action taken by us (the nerds) to keep P2P alive, i believe that downloading songs and movies is fine for personal use, but once you start selling them then thats wrong. BUT i DO strongly believe that we need to somehow keep P2P alive and show the richo's in the MPAA etc what we can do...... this thread should be kept open forever, we WILL find a way!!!!!

I will help as much as i can, i will be pondering over different ways to do this for a long time. Good on ya gavinmilward for taking the first step towards victory, for all of us! :D
I am very young, but nerdy enough, i know all Visual BASIC code (I know BASIC may not be the hardest language out there, but i learned it entirely when i was 11!), and know some C++, i will keep on studying. But still have no money, but once i have some, i will be doing all i can (if the action plan requires a lot of money).
I always keep a low profile, but not THAT low, so i can tell you that i am still in my VERY EARLY teens, thats about it.

All the best, IlL-eAgLe....
Good luck, i will be back soon....
Dont forget, i would love to chat with some of you on msn messenger
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Postby iNaNimAtE » Wed Dec 22, 2004 4:48 am

lordfoul wrote:Oh god a sermon from In rofl
First of all
Oh dear am I breaking the law!
Get over it.

Does it look like I care...?

lordfoul wrote:"Do not attack people for defending themselves"

Long Live Fair Use

At least quote me in full... "(OK, it was extreme, but it was still defense in principle)." Suing wasn't the right answer, but you don't need me to tell you why it happened.

blackrain wrote:Laws differ between countries

But who is doing the suing? The Recording Industry Association of America.

Sorry, but I do believe that (because it is an American industry doing the majority of the suing), making a copy of something that does not belong to you is illegal in America.

Drake wrote:You're wrong, there is a war. It started when the record labels began suing file sharers. They're not exactly defending themselves, they're attacking others. If you do some research you'll find that Hollywood is having a banner year. Box office records are being smashed. DVD sales are higher than ever. What exactly are they defending themselves from?

Copyright infringement. I never once said that the defense was necessary.

Drake wrote:Partially getting what they deserve? Do you really believe that the admins from Shareconnector deserved to get raided and detained by the authorities for having a hash link site? Who exactly were ShareConnector harming?

Not necessarily ShareConnector, but if one comes home complaining that they got busted for downloading something that they didn't own the rights to, there is no use in playing the blame game.

Drake wrote:Not all laws are just. Sometimes breaking the law is a good thing.

I'm not saying what is good/bad right/wrong just/unjust. I'm simply demonstrating a conditional statement that many people forget to notice.

Something I guess I have to clear up: I'm not saying it's right; I'm saying how it works. Even though it appears that you want to change how it works, spamming and DDOSing is not the answer. People are first going to have to own up to what they have done, which isn't happening. As revolutionary as you want to be, you will never change the fact that the music industry is just that: An industry. As long as people continue to copy things for free that one is legally required to pay for, no one will get anywhere.
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Postby cheezee » Wed Dec 22, 2004 8:23 am

Step one: Look up "SeaLand"
Step two: Host your BT servers there
Step three: Sit back and relax


Unless I am reading wrong this place is physically outside the reach of any and all copyright enforcement agencies and only prohibits kiddie pron form any server located there. They do charge a bit so say goodbye to completely free access. Prolly need a subscription fee.

In the meantime, I am back to Usenet and maybe waste to trade stuff among friends of mine I know personally.
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Postby blackrain » Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:23 pm

iNaNimAtE wrote:Sorry, but I do believe that (because it is an American industry doing the majority of the suing), making a copy of something that does not belong to you is illegal in America.


Most of the sites that were taken down or shut down in the last year or so are not American nor were they run by Americans. The site administrators often are not even breaking the law, but American companies, Microsoft, movie companies, whatever, come into the country, enlist the dinky little local organisations to add some domestic flavour to their whining, and then say that the site owners or operators have been distributing copyrighted material directly or selling copies, or whatever it takes to get the authorities to go in and harass these people. Maybe some of these companies will eventually face punishment for making false allegations, as you say, but the reality is that these are big corporations with tons of money, and no individuals will take the flack for screwing up the lives and ruining the reputations of people who weren't actually breaking the law at all (remember, law, not principles, or morals). Corporations break the law all the time, cause a great deal of pain, all in the name of profit. The most they ever face is a fine, generally, and some lovely countries even have legal loopholes that allow them to write-off those fines as costs of operating. Ain't it great?

I'll never feel sorry for these corporations, because they're trying to box us all into little regions to make more money and maintain control and trying to make us accept and make it the law that they control what happens to products created by them even after the consumer has bought them. Somehow, that doesn't sit well with me. What's the point of ownership at all, if you don't really own it?
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Postby iNaNimAtE » Wed Dec 22, 2004 9:58 pm

blackrain wrote:Most of the sites that were taken down or shut down in the last year or so are not American nor were they run by Americans.

But it was American law (which in turn protected their own interests) that allowed them to attack.

blackrain wrote:The site administrators often are not even breaking the law, but American companies, Microsoft, movie companies, whatever, come into the country, enlist the dinky little local organisations to add some domestic flavour to their whining, and then say that the site owners or operators have been distributing copyrighted material directly or selling copies, or whatever it takes to get the authorities to go in and harass these people.

OK now, unless Microsoft was somehow involved in this, don't pull a "guilty by association."

blackrain wrote:Maybe some of these companies will eventually face punishment for making false allegations, as you say, but the reality is that these are big corporations with tons of money, and no individuals will take the flack for screwing up the lives and ruining the reputations of people who weren't actually breaking the law at all (remember, law, not principles, or morals).

I'm sure one day it will change (all things do with time), but our current system is indeed corrupted.

blackrain wrote:Corporations break the law all the time, cause a great deal of pain, all in the name of profit. The most they ever face is a fine, generally, and some lovely countries even have legal loopholes that allow them to write-off those fines as costs of operating. Ain't it great?

Quite.

But on a similar note, if anyone intends to fix this "problem" without stopping the copyright infringement, the entire copyright and legal foundation of America (again, American laws are what back this) would have to be rewritten. This would affect other fair use laws (and the whole idea of "copyright" itself), which would create a domino effect. I am not sure anyone is ready for this.

blackrain wrote:I'll never feel sorry for these corporations, because they're trying to box us all into little regions to make more money and maintain control and trying to make us accept and make it the law that they control what happens to products created by them even after the consumer has bought them. Somehow, that doesn't sit well with me. What's the point of ownership at all, if you don't really own it?

Even if you don't own it, millions of people are apparently tolerant of fair use; exempla gratis: iTunes, CDs, even the majority of FCC-regulated electronics (which consists of about everything).

It is sad to test the system, but I think that changing it takes a lot of initiative on the part of the music downloaders.

One last question: Why did this whole thing start?
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Postby Drake » Thu Dec 23, 2004 12:26 am

iNaNimAtE wrote:Not necessarily ShareConnector, but if one comes home complaining that they got busted for downloading something that they didn't own the rights to, there is no use in playing the blame game.


No one is talking about the blame game. You said they got what they deserved. Their lives may be ruined just because they setup a link site. Furthermore, their actions have not even made a dent into the recording or movie industry. How exactly are they getting "what they deserve"?


iNaNimAtE wrote:I'm not saying what is good/bad right/wrong just/unjust. I'm simply demonstrating a conditional statement that many people forget to notice.

Something I guess I have to clear up: I'm not saying it's right; I'm saying how it works. Even though it appears that you want to change how it works, spamming and DDOSing is not the answer.


What is the answer? Ordinary people can't fight them in court. In order to fight them on the legal front, you have to have a serious war chest. You fight with what you have and that's how it works.



iNaNimAtE wrote:People are first going to have to own up to what they have done, which isn't happening. As revolutionary as you want to be, you will never change the fact that the music industry is just that: An industry. As long as people continue to copy things for free that one is legally required to pay for, no one will get anywhere.


Own up to downloading copyrighted material? Big deal. Don't make it seem as if they're criminals. Sharing is what P2P is all about. When you start paying for things obtained it ceases to be P2P.
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Postby rsrikanth05 » Sun Jul 03, 2005 8:38 am

I have created a P2P Site (under developement)-[url]peerumboor.tripod.com[/url]
I am creating a forums (also under developement)- [url]peerumboor.250free.com[/url]
I ma creating a forum-http://peerumboor.10.forumer.com
I will always support P2P
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.........
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Postby Nick » Sun Jul 03, 2005 9:19 am

Any idea or strategy must be better than lying back and watching everything disappear before our very eyes. Any solution that embraces the legal issues and uses technology to further muddy the waters has to be worth considering.

As for illegal downloading, I have never downloaded anything illegally in my life. Illegal means unlawful, and there is no specific law prohibiting downloading only for personal use in the UK.

In reply to
Step one: Look up "SeaLand"


Yep, good idea, look up "Sealand". And then think long and hard. It is a derelict sunken barge in the middle of an inhospitable ocean, without formal legal recognition and owned by a disreputable former scrap metal dealer.

Come on, let's hear the tech solutions and we can then look at the legal issues.
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Postby SlyckScratch » Sun Jul 03, 2005 10:44 am

Hmmmmmmmmmmm

Please bear in mind that suggesting a "Battle Plan" and actively seeking suggestions to assist in this, is running close to the idea of launching some sort of campaign from Slyck, which I understand may be coming close to breaking the rules here.......

I am unsure. Someone else will decide this....
I know what you're thinking, punk. You're thinking, 'Did he use six superfluous adjectives or only five?' To tell the truth I forgot myself in all this excitement - but as I deal in English, the most powerful language in the world with subtle nuances that may blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' Well do you punk?
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Postby TDO » Sun Jul 03, 2005 10:54 am

"we a too smart"

Oh the irony of that one sentence :).

Anyway, not the point, I'm just being little here...
My plan, as it has always been is to kick back, and enjoy the show... People do have power - but... Programmers... They shall decide the true outcome of this "battle".

Let's face it, if a couple dozens of the "smart" programmers join forces(and by smart I mean "creative", people like dvd john, bram cohen, the falks of google) then they could probably do an unstoppable p2p program...

Oh well... I'd rather to relax and enjoy the show :).
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Postby LxBeast » Sun Jul 03, 2005 12:41 pm

SlyckScratch wrote:the idea of launching some sort of campaign from Slyck, which I understand may be coming close to breaking the rules here.......


Look at the thread creation date:

Wed Dec 15, 2004 10:50 pm


This thread was created before the rules where set in stone.
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Postby SlyckScratch » Sun Jul 03, 2005 1:50 pm

God. I thought it developed quickly. Who bumped this? :twisted: :roll:
I know what you're thinking, punk. You're thinking, 'Did he use six superfluous adjectives or only five?' To tell the truth I forgot myself in all this excitement - but as I deal in English, the most powerful language in the world with subtle nuances that may blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' Well do you punk?
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Postby LxBeast » Sun Jul 03, 2005 1:57 pm

SS wrote:God. I thought it developed quickly.


Lol, I guess it did develop quickly at the time. :lol:

SS wrote: Who bumped this? :twisted: :roll:


Look up 6 posts. :P <From this post.>

It'll fade away into obscurity soon enough. :arrow:
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